Unorthodox Tau Army Analysis.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 03 2012 02:47

As I'm sure many of you have noticed, if we want to play tau effectively, most people, including myself, take a cookie cutter list of crisis suits, broadsides and minimum sized fire warrior squads with the odd hammerhead thrown in now and again. The general consensus is your crisis suits should be fire knives (plasma and missile pod) with a few people preferring more specialized suits such as helios (plasma and fusion) and death rain (TL missile pod). There are people however, who use lists many of us consider sub par, that repeatedly win with their unorthodox armies. The aim of this thread is to post battle reports using non-standard tau armies where said army is victorious and to analyze how these supposed sub par armies have achieved victory through combinations of different units not fielded by the majority. I'm not trying to say that they are better than what the majority use already but that they are actually more effective than people think. I'll get us started.

Quote:

So, it’s been a while since I’ve had a game but today was an exception! I ended up facing a really nice marine player who, unluckily, was experiencing a losing streak all day. Three losses in a row! Anyway, we played on a 2x4 table, 1000 points each. The lists were as follows.

My list...
HQ
XV8 Crisis Battlesuit Command Team
1xCrisis Shas’el with Plasma rifle, Fusion Blaster and HW Multitracker.
2xCrisis Shas’vre with Plasma rifle, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array and HW Multitracker.

Troop
Firewarriors
6xFirewarriors with Pulse Rifles.
Firewarriors
6xFirewarriors with Pulse Rifles.

Elite
XV25 Stealthsuit Team
1x Shas’ ui with Fusion blaster and Targetting array. 2x Shas’ui with Burst cannon and Target lock.
XV25 Stealthsuit Team
1x Shas’ ui with Fusion blaster and Targetting array. 2x Shas’ui with Burst cannon and Target lock.

Heavy Suppport
XV88 Broadside Battlesuit Team
1x Shas’ ui Leader with Targeting Array, HW Drone Controller with 2x Shield Drones.
1x Shas’ ui with Targetting Array.
1x Shas’ ui with Target Lock.
Hammerhead Gunship
1x Hammerhead with Ion Cannon, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multitracker.

His list (you’ll have to forgive me on this, I don’t know the exact details but it was wysiwyg)...
HQ
Librarian
with terminator armour.
Space Marine Captain
with Orbital Bombardment.

Troop
Space marine tactical squad
5xSpace marines.
Space marine tactical squad
9xSpace marines, 1x space marine with missile launcher.
Space marine scout squad
5xSpace marine scouts.

Elite
Terminator squad
5xTerminators with storm bolters and powerfists.
Dreadnought
1x Dreadnought with multi melta, storm bolter and krak missile.

I rolled for capture and control wihle he rolled for standard deployment. I won the role off with a six and chose to set up first. We played the board length ways with a large LOS blocking building in the centre of the table. On my side of the board there was a single piece of area terrain roughly in the middle of my deployment zone and on his there was a smaller piece on his right flank.

I placed my objectve in the centre of the area terrain with both firewarrior squads on either side. Both half in area terrain to claim a cover save. The squad on the left flank was spaced two inches apart and provided an assault screen for my broadsides who were set up a few inches behind them on the far left. On my right I placed my Ionhead next to my firewarriors and behind the tank I placed my HQ, ready to leap out and decimate those terminators if they got too close.
My stealth teams would infiltrate.

Opposite me, my opponent set up his five man tac squad the full twelve inches forward on my far right flank. Meanwhile his scouts set up next to his objective in area terrain. Next to the five man tac squad he set up the terminators with librarian and behind them his dreadnought. All out of LOS of the broadsides. Finally he placed his ten man tac squad with captain in the middle of his deployment zone behind the dread. I then proceeded to infiltrate my stealth suits behind the building in the centre of the board. He rolled to steal the initiative. The dice came up three.

Turn 1
I jumped my stealth suits out from behind cover, one off to the left, the other to the right. The ionhead started strong, with all three shots hitting the dreadnought, one penetrating it’s adamantium shell and immobilising the ancient war machine. The stealth team and firewarriors on the left flank killed three scouts with their combined pulse fire, despite the 3+ cover save. The firewarriors on the right flank then proceeded to reduce the five man tac squad to two men. Both made their leadership checks. The broadsides took aim at the scouts but cover kept them safe. Both stealth teams jumped back behind cover.

He moved his terminators forward with the librarian along with the two man tac squad down my right flank. He kept everything else stilll. The captain radioed in and summoned a strength 10 ap1 blast from orbit. Targeting the hammerhead and the suits behind it. Fortunately the ships sensors were off and it missed by six inches, landing in front of the firewarriors. The marine with the missile launcher also took a shot at the hammerhead but the missile spiralled off into the distance. The terminators and and tac squad ran. The scouts shot at the broadsides with only the seargent causing a wound where-upon I failed my armour save and the dreadnought was out of range. No assault.

Turn 2
My stealths popped out of cover again while my HQ appeard from behind the ionhead. The stealths on the right flank killed a terminator thanks to their fusion blaster while the hammerhead wiped out the two remaining marines. The helios suits took aim and also brought down a terminator from twenty-four inches. The firewarriors took aim at the terminators then failed to wound. One broadsides could just see a termintor and took a pot shot. It hit but failed to wound as well! The second stealth team peppered the terminators with fire from the other side of the building but the fusilade failed to wound. The firewarriors on the left flank took wild shots at the scouts leaving them totally unharmed. Stealth suits jumped behind cover again while the crisis suits hid behind the tank.

The terminators moved forward putting them worryingly close to the stealths on the right while the ten man tac squad moved up behind them. The scouts shot at the broadsides again but failed to wound. Thankfully my opponent decided to run his terminators buying me one more turn. He also ran the tac squad. No assault.

Turn 3
My hammerhead shot forward, providing a wall between the two stealth teams less one was assaulted, staying out of LOS of the dread. The command team jumped forward, the terminators now in killing range. The stealth suits on the right jumped back , closer to the objective. The stealth suits on the left popped out to target the scouts. My entire army oppend up on the terminators, leaving them untouched. Then the helios command team let loose with a hail of plasma and melta decimating the remaining three terminators leaving the librarian out in the open, who had survived thanks to his invun save. The stealth suits on the left wounded the scouts but then they went to ground for a 2+ cover save. They passed. My helios jumped back out of assault range while the stealths carried on backwards and into area terrain where one of them failed their dangerouse terrain test and kicked the bucket.

The librarian stayed where he was, the scouts were too busy staying hidden and the dreadnought twiddled it’s powerfist while the marine squad carried on up the right flank. The librarian used a psychic power to penetrate the hammerhead and shake it, meaning it’s weapons were useless for a turn. The marine squad ran. No assaults.

Turn 4

The helios proceeded to vapourize the librarian while the broadsides misted a couple of marines from the oncoming squad. The hammerhead sat there while everything opened up on the remaining scouts who seemed to have found an impenetrable log to hide under as they went to ground.

The tac squad unloaded itself into the stealth team in terrain, wiping it out, then just sat there.

Turn 5
The hammerhead tank shocked the tac squad with the missile launcher marine enacting death or glory. He made a nice smear across the windscreen. The ion cannon killed three more while the burst cannons killed another. The Helios and Broadsides finished them off. The remaining stealths shot at the scouts along with the firewrriors, but their coversave was too good as they went to ground yet again!

The scouts stayed where they were while the dreadnought finally found a target and melted the hammerhead.

Turn 6
Fed up of trying to shoot the scouts the stealth team headed across the battlefield to confront them. The Command squad moved up the right flank. Everything that could shot the scouts who were saved by cover from going to ground! The stealths jetpacked towards the scouts while the helios went towards the dreadnought. Determined to avenge the fallen hammerhead.

The dreadnought took aim with it’s stormbolter, which I had completely forgotten about and proceeded to kill two of the stealth suits (I had completely forgotten about their stealth field generator!).

Turn 7
I rolled a six so we carried on. The lone stealthsuit jumped into the scout’s cover while the helios moved in on the dread for the killing blow. Too close for cover to work, the remaning stealth killed two out of three scouts while the command squad had their revenge on the dreadnought, wrecking it. The entire army then opened up on the lone scout but to no avail. He then passed his morale check. Desperately trying to finish him off, the stealth suit assaulted, where it promptly died from the scout punching him through his helmet.

The scout sat there.

A draw! I claimed my objective while he claimed his, and as I pointed out to him. He may have only had one model left but he was improving. In hindsight I should have been a little more carful with the hammerhead and just left the stealth suit to contest otherwise I am happy with my performance. I was impressed with the ionhead and the stealth suits didn’t seem too bad either. Considering this is only the second time I have used either of them I feel they have a lot of potential when used correctly.

For this battle, I have used stealth suits and a hammerhead with an ion cannon (rarely seen due to competition with the railgun) as an example.

The stealth suits would have actually swung the game if I had been a little more careful with them and remembered their stealth field while the hammerhead drew fire and used it's ion cannon as an anti marine/light vehicle weapon. The broadsides were actually quite ineffective in this game and did very little to affect it. Of course, a big factor in this is play style. Stealth suits are very different from crisis suits and you cannot treat them as the latter. Crisis suits are seen as anti infantry mostly whereas I see stealth as anti tank. That means anti infantry can be shifted to HQ and anti light vehicle can be dealt with by heavy support. Swap around some of the different roles and see what happens.

Let's say someone fills their elite slots with stealth suits. Three teams of six. Two suits with fusion blasters and four suits with target locks in each team. Now, imagine they are facing a 1500 point guard list with about ten chimeras and a russ. They know you're tau so they are going to set up as far forward as possible. It's a given. That means you can infiltrate behind them. With the aforementioned setup, you can reasonably expect to damage nine vehicles in a single shooting phase from just over a third of your army. That isn't something to scoff at. There are also enough models that they can hold there own until the cavalry arrives, so to speak. Even if the stealth suits are all wiped out in retaliation, the army then has to footslog it's way into 900 points of fresh tau. Three hammerheads anyone? Heck, even if you take out a couple of chimeras from long range and have your stealth suits infiltrate in front of the line, a gap has still been made in which they can shoot at side armour. Add in a gundrone screen from fast attack or piranha squadrons and play havoc with their movement too.

The point I'm trying to make here is that if you decide to use a certain unit that isn't as effective as a crisis suit, you can't be half and half, you have to be all in. Otherwise, it doesn't work.

Now, I expect I'm about to get hit with a lot of maths on how inefficient this all is but please, if your army is not considered the norm and you win with units other than crisis and broadsides, post a batrep here so we can analyze how you did it and what combinations work for our more expensive units.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 03 2012 11:03

Nice writeup. As you pointed out, the Space Marine player made a few mistakes, but I think you've made a reasonable case for further discussion.

Personally, I love stealth suits. They die. A lot. But that's what you get for a one-wound model that relies on distance for protection. I fully expect that any math will indicate the superiority of a Crisis suit in straight out shooting, not to mention the whole T4 2W bit and wound-allocation shenanigans that opens up; but I think that falls under using the wrong tool for the job. Crisis Suits are our mainstay fighters, who can dish out and take damage in equal measure. Stealth Suits are a bit more specialized.

Your suggestion for putting stealthsuits behind a Guard line is interesting, but I do foresee a few problems with its realistic implementation; unless the place is covered in debris, it's going to be hard to find LoS blocking cover backfield that isn't being used for Basilisks and the like. If you have to deploy 18" away from the back of a tank line... I don't know about where you play, but that's not usually possible on the boards I'm used to. Further, if they get the first turn and go zooming off, you're left in the dust trying to play catch up.

HOWEVER, there's usually someplace on the board left unused. Not usually a good spot (if it was good, they'd have deployed there), but out of the way is doable. If you can harry the side of a battle-line, the opponent has two choices; send someone toward the Stealth Team to deal with it (since you can't realistically handle them at a distance), thus removing something from the main attack, or ignore them, letting them have free reign of side armor and the like. If someone does go after them, stealth suit defenses can keep them from harm's way for a little while, but without backup they die. A lot.

I'm actually quite interested in seeing how well they do outflanking; positional relay them in turn 2, hope to get the side your enemy is advancing on, generally cause a mess and block lines of advance? They have an awful lot of utility, but the number one thing to remember when using them is that you cannot use them as a blunt instrument; they lack both the firepower and survivability for a straight fight.

I look forward to seeing what more seasoned veterans have to say about this.

EDIT: Be ever mindful of pintle storm bolters. You would not believe how many stealth suits I've lost to them.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 01:24

Personally stealth suits always become a great success or a disaster. I never get average performance from them.

One game they might play havoc and destroy three tanks and cause my opponent all kinds of woe, and in the next game they are removed without accomplishing much of anything.

This leads me to avoid them, and mainly because of their point cost. The are great harassment units, and can play 'delay' as well as a piranha squadron. They draw off enemy attention and have some teeth to boot. While they are good in all aspects, compete with the XV-8, and while they can by all measures compete statistically with an XV-8, they are more expensive and less survivable. If they were cheaper, I might drop a XV-8 team to field them, or if they were in a different FOC slot I would gladly field them alongside the XV-8's. Alas, they are in the perfect storm of high point cost and competition with a more utilitarian unit.

This is a shame, since I much prefer stealth suits over XV-8's in concept as well as looks. If they could carry rail rifles or something you would see loads of them in my list. To be honest, their point cost and flimsy nature can be forgiven, but their weapon options combined with their pricey stealth fields just don't mesh well. To bring burst cannons to bear you have to get into pretty much average night fighting spot range, thus statistically nullifying the protective properties of the stealth field. And that issue is only made worse when you have melta and are trying to close to use those. Maybe if stealth fields made opponents have to spot them on a d6 less than normal night fighting but as it were... *sigh*

I would present my own battle reports on my list, but I am not sure if you consider my army unorthodox as well. I have a pretty much all suit list with foot Firewarriors and a singe Hammerhead. However I do still spam them suits. I also include XV-9 and Tetras, how far are you taking this analysis?

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 02:08

I've had good success with an SMT. I find their burst cannons to be quite useful, and wish they had just 6" more range...

I'm kinda curious how it would work if you just said 'I want ALL of the markers!' and dropped a sixman stealth team with two marker drones each... Sure, it's expensive as all get out, but you now have all the markerlights you could ever want, and only one force slot used. >_> Go spam some piranhas. And take no targetting arrays on your XV8s....

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 03:50

@SparkSovereign: Good point. However, this setup could play havoc in spear head or, as you said, outflanking.

@Nevar: It depends what loadout your suits are. Fire knife, death rain and helios are the suits I would consider common so if you're using sun forges effectively, let's hear it!

@Cr'shu: You could have a total of thirteen markerlights in a unit and sounds fun to try. Two immediate problems pop out at me though. Unit size is going to hamper it. You're going to have problems hiding all eighteen models behind LOS blocking terrain because of it's footprint. The stealth field will help but as we all know too well, people like to get close. The other thing is the cost. You're paying over five-hundred points for one unit. To me, it sounds like they should be a large game unit. By no means am I saying don't use them. Like I said, the whole purpose of this thread is to analyze our unorthodox units in battle. If someone wants to test it out I say go for it!

As far as analysis is concerned, I aim to do two things with this thread. Firstly, to see which of our non-standard units are most effective, which play style best suits them and what units benefit from each other the most. I think a good idea would be, before we analyze a battle, say what preconceptions we have about the unit/s being tested. After we have seen how said unit has performed, compare it with what we thought would happen to it. This gives us an overall better idea of what to expect from said unit. Secondly, I'm trying to promote some healthy discussion here on ATT as all we're getting at the moment is posts about how to deal with hordes and commander loadouts which articles already exist for. I'm just trying to inject a little bit of life back into the community.

Por'Ui · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 05:13

This is a very interesting idea for a discussion. Thanks for bringing it up space pope II.

I myself have probably never fielded what people would refer to as a 'competitive' list, however this is more to do with a lack of the models than anything else.

Personally I've experienced a decent amount of success using Deep-striking Stealth suits. I normally use 3 Suits - 1 W/ FB and TA, 2 W/ BC and TL. I use it to drop in right next to an enemy vehicle with some light Infantry nearby if possible (I normally have a Pathfinder Devilfish and a PR in my army, so it comes in fairly reliably). I then proceed to take a nice straight shot at the vehicles rear or side armor, and use the BC's to harass any infantry. Marker Support is ideal to make a good impression.
I normally try to drop them in on the flanks or at isolated positions, and then once they eliminate the primary target, they jump around annoying my opponent until they die. They do most of their work on the turn they arrive, so they don't tend to be high priority for the enemy there-on, and even if they do die immediately after, they normally come at least close to making their points back. If its a big vehicle, then sometimes they earn it back twice-fold! *cough* Landraider *cough*.

I only have two Rail Guns in my collection, and so I use these teams to make up for this lack, and normally field one of them under 1500pts, and two over that. I also find that outflanking several 10 man squads of Kroot complement this tactic nicely.
For just over 100pts per unit, these Stealth Battlesuit teams have served me well over my battles, and (though against somewhat inexperienced enemies, alike to me) I have pulled out more victory's than defeats in my battles for the Greater Good.

P.S. On a note to SMT's, whilst you can field a large number of Markerlights in such a unit with only a single FoC slot, you can also do that with Pathfinders.

Edit: I just noticed that you fielded identical Stealth Battlesuit Teams in your battle report. Sorry if this tactic is old news.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 05:29

Don't worry. It's not old news to everyone. I didn't get a chance to pull off that particular tactic as there was only one vehicle which the hammerhead immobilized on turn one, so thanks for pointing that out.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 02:02

Cr'shu wrote:

I've had good success with an SMT. I find their burst cannons to be quite useful, and wish they had just 6" more range...

I'm kinda curious how it would work if you just said 'I want ALL of the markers!' and dropped a sixman stealth team with two marker drones each... Sure, it's expensive as all get out, but you now have all the markerlights you could ever want, and only one force slot used. >_> Go spam some piranhas. And take no targetting arrays on your XV8s....

As space pope II pointed out, this is a LOT of points. However, there is a huge advantage to this; Stealth Suits, being jetpack infantry, are Relentless, as are the drones joining them. So, unlike with a unit of (vastly cheaper) pathfinders, you can move every turn (twice, thanks to JSJ) and thus stay reasonably close to 36" away from your enemies at all times... which is where the stealth field makes you pretty much invulnerable. (Do watch out for scatter, though.)

I'd also caution against a six-strong unit with full Marker Drones; in addition to being absurdly expensive (540 points+), the Marker Drones lack Target Locks, and you are thus stuck pointing 12 markerlights at one unit. While this can be hilarious (welcome to pinning tests at Ld 2, Grey Knights!) you can probably do something better with those points, especially in games smaller than 2k. Like bring Ionheads.

...I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest a crazy idea. You know how drones are initiative 4, and how stealth suits have 2 attacks? Outflank such a team, pop up right next to IG heavy weapon teams or similar, shoot them, use the markerlights to pin them (poor Tau's assault grenades

), and then ASSAULT. You can probably beat up a wounded heavy weapon team in CC, and might even put the hurt on Long Fangs if you have enough drones. Having cleared the backfield, jump around and markerlight the living hell out of one thing a turn for the rest of the game while your opponent reels from the sheer audacity of what you just pulled. Internet cookies for anyone who pulls this off.

Shas'Saal · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 02:09

i thought our XV suit where not relentless and neither are our drones, our suit are able to move with rapid fire weapons and still shoot them at full distance but we cannot move and fire heavy thats why XV88 needs additional wargear

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 03:03

@BFerret:. That limitation only applies to crisis suits because the codex states they have a semi relentless which overrules the rule book and broadsides don't get it because they have no jet pack to grant relentless. XV25s are relentless due to the rules for jet pack (not jump pack) infantry in the main rule book.

@SparkSovereign: Just because you can it doesn't mean you should. I'll refer you to what happened to my single xv25 vs a single scout. Same toughness and wounds. I had better armour and more attacks, he had better initiative. Look how that turned out. I might suggest it as a survival method though. Outflank, shoot and assault the survivors to avoid return fire. Let's face it, they'll get stuck in combat for at least one turn. On the other hand, I do know that Ell'ran has had success with a similar approach, albeit with a much smaller and less costly unit.

If anyone's got any batreps, don't hesitate to post

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 03:31

Jetpack troops are Relentless.
Battlesuits can fire Rapid Fire as if they didn't move.
These overlap for XV8 and XV15/25, and Relentless does better things. Neither of these suits can carry Heavy weaponry, anyway, so whether or not they could fire heavy as if they didn't move is a moot point. (Note that the codex does not say they lose Relentless, both rules apply to these suit types. Another amusing bit is that this is where it mentions that these suits cannot Jetpack-move in the Assault phase after Deep Strike. However, this is not an intrinsic to jetpack models. There are two in the Tau Codex that CAN move in Assault after deep strike: Drones (A squad by themselves), and Shadowsun, who is not in either of the aforementioned suits...)

XV88 are not Jetpack. Thus, they are not Relentless. However, they are Battlesuits, and so can fire rapid fire as if they didn't move. They CAN carry heavy weaponry, but must not move to fire it, unless they take BASS.

Back on-topic...
You can get 10 markerlights at most from a Pathfinder squad, for roughly 250 points. They are stationary, however, and have no intrinsic protections. (T3/4+) You can in theory get 13 lights from the stealth deathlight squad, and they are Relentless, and they have stealth fields, and slightly better armor on the actual suits. They also actually can attack things and mark them, instead of just marking. They are also resilient to fire, in a way, as you drop off markerlights when they are hit. The problem is that they are at least 500 points, and with quick codex-less math, I think 600 is closer. If ever there is a single target you REALLY want dead... You can open fire with all your troops at 2+... (Trying to pin is funny, but... not very useful... Hard to wound with our pinning weapons, so forcing the test itself is pretty hard.)

Before I would try the infiltrate/deep strike stealth+drone wombo-combo, I would try it with just Gun Drone Squadron, to see how that would work... Come to think of it, has anyone tried Gun Drones for assault-blocking instead of Kroot? (I suspect it's because the drones cost quite a bit more in points than kroot do...)

Shas'Saal · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 04:24

Cr'shu wrote:

You can get 10 markerlights at most from a Pathfinder squad, for roughly 250 points. They are stationary, however, and have no intrinsic protections. (T3/4+) You can in theory get 13 lights from the stealth deathlight squad, and they are Relentless, and they have stealth fields, and slightly better armor on the actual suits. They also actually can attack things and mark them, instead of just marking. They are also resilient to fire, in a way, as you drop off markerlights when they are hit. The problem is that they are at least 500 points, and with quick codex-less math, I think 600 is closer. If ever there is a single target you REALLY want dead... You can open fire with all your troops at 2+... (Trying to pin is funny, but... not very useful... Hard to wound with our pinning weapons, so forcing the test itself is pretty hard.)

It's 560 pts for the SMT without any fusion blasters. That's enough for almost 3 pathfinder teams without marker drones (at 600pts) giving you 11 more marker light shots at the same bs, enabling you to spread out your markerlights, avoid having all your markerlight sources locked in combat, shot to death or broken without a lot more effort from your opponents and leaving the elites slots open for crisis suits who will be able to attack better than stealth suits and won't have to split their time between marking and attacking. The 3 devilfishes you get can also be used as transports for other squads or for blocking. Overall SMTs are a nice idea but just lack precision in that they're a multi role unit that has to split its time. Stealth suits aren't much more hardy than pathfinders as their engagement range is within the average night fight vision range rendering their stealth shields fairly ineffective, you've got less models and the drones are destroyed instantly when the controlling model is destroyed which also doesn't help. I'm all for trying out different tactics, but I don't believe that this will be a more effective one.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 05:47

vidboi wrote:

<snip>
Stealth suits aren't much more hardy than pathfinders as their engagement range is within the average night fight vision range rendering their stealth shields fairly ineffective
<snip>

If you're using them for a markerlight death squad, you're probably keeping them at 36" instead of 18"; this takes you out from "hope your opponent rolls poorly" to "trust they don't roll boxcars", which is considerably more survivable. When using them for anti-infantry shooting, however, you are absolutely right; I've had someone fail to spot them only a handful of times.

@Cr'shu:
Deep striking a drone squadron as a replacement for what Kroot usually do sounds interesting. If you've got pathfinders, re-roll scatter gives you a reasonable chance to not die, and as you pointed out, our Frisbee-shaped helpers get their jump move on the deep strike. While that's probably better as a surprise to an opponent used to playing against "standard Tau" than as a proper replacement for Kroot, drones are certainly more bullet-resistant.

Shas'Ui · **Posted:** Jun 04 2012 11:38

I like the concept of this post a lot, so let me add my thoughts.

Recently, I've become a huge fan of Farsight. Having a power weapon in the list (and the ability to kill dreadnoughts in CC) is something very overlooked, partly because of the cost and partly because he restricts the army. However, I've found a list that does quite well against a large variety of opponents and is extremely fun to use.

Quote:

Huntre Cadre Fueris
2000

Commander Farsight (510) [HQ]
-farsight
-shas’vre w/ plasma rifle, fusion blaster, targeting array, HW multi-tracker, 2 shield drones, iridium armour
-shas’vre w/ plasma rifle, fusion blaster, targeting array, HW multi-tracker, 2 shield drones, stimulant injector
-shas’vre w/ TL flamer, 2 shield drones, failsafe detonator, bonding knife

Crisis Team (212) [Elites]
-shas’ui tl w/ plasma rifle, fusion blaster, targeting array, HW multi-tracker, shield drone, bonding knife
-shas’ui w/ TL fusion blaster, shield drone
-shas’ui w/ plasma rifle, fusion blaster, multi-tracker

Crisis Team (106) [Elites]
-shas’ui w/ TL missile pod, targeting array x2

Fire Warrior Team (215) [Troops]
-shas’ui w/ bonding knife
-shas’la x11
-devilfish w/ disruption pod

Fire Warrior Team (215) [Troops]
-shas’ui w/ bonding knife
-shas’la x11
-devilfish w/ disruption pod

Tetra Team (120) [Fast Attack]
-tetra w/ targeting array, blacksun filter
-tetra w/ targeting array, target lock

Piranha Squadron (140) [Fast Attack]
-piranha w/ fusion blaster, targeting array x2

Broadside Team (300) [Heavy Support]
-shas’ui tl w/ targeting array, HW target lock, 2 shield drones, bonding knife
-shas’ui w/ targeting array
-shas’ui w/ 2 shield drones

Hammerhead Gunship (180) [Heavy Support]
-hammerhead w/ railgun, smart missile system, disruption pod, multi-tracker, target lock

Farsight's unit has a few roles. Primarily, it acts as a helios team. This is key. I think too many people are caught up in Farsight having a sword versus him being able to get a retinue with things in it. Farsight should be charging things that need to be finished off after a round of shooting (ie the four marines left, not the whole tactical squad). The unit also acts as the most fantastic buffer the Tau have. It can take a charge from almost everything in the game and live, and may even win combat, depending if the opponent forgets the Farsight is actually GOOD in CC. However, if you lose, the failsafe detonator goes off. The key here is not the large blast template (though that is highly amusing to watch the opponents face), but the fact that the opponent does not consolidate! This is HUGE. It allows Farsight to regroup and hose the unit that charged it (and let the rest of the army do the same). It essentially gives Farsight's unit two lives, which is needed since it is so expensive. The rest of the stuff in the unit is (obviously) to extend the longevity of the unit (and deflect random missile launchers, yay 2+ shield drones!).

The other non-standard aspect of the list (at least to other Tau players in my area) is the use of 12-man fire warrior teams. Here's my mentality: all units should be able to kill things. They should not be useless and die to a stiff wind. There is a Tau player in my area who relies on keeping his compulsory 6 FWs alive by holding them in reserve and hoping they don't come on until turn 5. It rarely works out that way. Instead, they come on, die and he loses a scoring unit. I like having 12 as well to kill monstrous creatures. Aided by the Tetras, there isn't much in the game that stands up to 48 BS 5 pulse shots.

Battle Report: Tau vs Space Marines

Quote:

Khan
Cassius
Techmarine

Dreadnought w/ TL lascannon
Ironclad w/ twin heavy flamers, drop pod

Sniper scouts w/ Telion
Combat Scouts w/ pfist
Tactical Squad w/ rhino, melta, combi-melta, powerfist, missile launcher

Assault Squad w/ 3 plasma pistols, powerfist
Attack Bike Squadron w/ 2 multi-melta attack bikes
Attack Bike Squadron w/ 1 multi-melta attack bikes

Devastators w/ 3 lascannons

Landraider

Before the battle report, let me detail how the marine list works, because it is quite hilariously fantastic. The bikes, assault squad and tactical squad outflanks. The devastators, laser dreadnought and sniper scouts sit in a bolstered building (3+ cover save) and shoot things. Khan, Cassius and the combat scouts ride in the landraider and basically act as a beat down unit. Furious charging scouts should never be sniffed at, and having Hit and Run is OBNOXIOUS!

Quote:

Deployment: Annihilation (using Victory Points) and Spearhead

I get first turn and take it, deploying everything. Broadsides and deathrains in a building, Fire warriors chilling, Farsight up and out ready to fight whatever. The helios team and hammerhead hang back with the tetras. The piranhas are with Farsight.

My opponent deploys only the shooting base, leaving everything else in reserve (which annoys the broadsides as there favorite target, the landraider, is not starting on the board).

Turn 1, Tau: During my first turn, I advance a bit, but not much, knowing that I'm going to be outflanked in a bad way. I kill a devastator with the submunition round and another with the broadsides. Wee meatshields.

Turn 1, SM: The Ironclad drops in but scatters far away. It tries to flamer the piranhas but fails. Farsight loses a shield drone to lascannons and snipers and farsight himself takes a wound.

Turn 2, Tau: The Ironclad dies for his arrogance at deep striking next to Tau. Some scouts die to unlucky rolls by my opponent failing his 2+ cover save.

Turn 2, SM: The assault squad shows up on the wrong side and the single attack bike appears next to me lines. The attack bike immobilizes a devilfish. The devastators target the tetras, and destroy one. Telion's unit also targets the tetras but gets stopped by the disruption pod.

Turn 3, Tau: Farsight takes a few long range plasma shots at the assault squad, killing two. The hammerhead submunition kills another two. The attack bike is eliminated with extreme XV88 prejudice.

Turn 3, SM: Everything else arrives. The landraider drives up the center. The tactical squad and the other two attack bikes threaten my broadsides. In shooting, I lose a piranha, but the other survives getting shot at by the sniper scouts and can move and shoot. The assault squad advances to about 15" away from Farsight, thinking of charging next turn. The landraider assault cannon kills another Farsight drone. The two attack bikes shoot and charge the broadsides, tying that unit up. Amusingly, I win combat and kill an attack bike from no retreat.

Turn 4, Tau: Farsight moves to the center of the board to engage the unit inside the landraider. The hammerhead and Piranha line up shots on the landraider. The two fire warrior teams get out to destroy the tactical squad. The shooting is mixed. The last piranha destroys the landraider but Farsight doesn't kill that many of the unit inside. However, the assault squad loses 4 members from the hammerhead submunition and SMS, and becomes useless (it also lost the pfist). The Deathrains kill the rhino but the fire warriors don't finish off the tactical squad and the sergeant with the pfist and three marines live. The helios team was out of rapid fire range of the tacticals and the enemy had cover, so they did nothing. Because the piranha destroyed the landraider, the hammerhead destroyed the dreadnought (with the help of the tetra unit) that had been shooting lasers at it the entire game . Farsight decides to pull back from the assault squad and combat scouts. The remaining attack bike loses another wound but stays in CC.

Turn 4, SM: The remaining tacticals engage the broadsides and a FW team. Farsight takes all the shooting this round from two plasma pistols, scout bolt pistols, sniper rifles, a missile launcher, telion and three lascannons. Ouch. Farsight takes another wound and loses the failsafe detonator. (My opponent knew what the FSD could do and killed it with Telion and my unlucky rolls). The unit goes down to one drone left and each of the other suits took a wound. In combat, the broadsides and Fire Warriors win combat thanks to the pfist being against the broadside shield drones. The attack bike dies to the broadsides but the tactical squad stays strong.

Turn 5, Tau: Farsight's unit hoses the combat scouts with plasma and leave only the pfist wielding sergeant around. A wound each to Cassius and Khan. The helios team decides to charge the tactical squad to free the fire warriors and broadsides. The combined Tau kill two, though the pfist kills a fire warrior and the marines stay in CC. A low roll for jumping away meant Farsight was in range of CC with the combat scouts (And Khan and Cassius). The hammerhead kills off all but the last two jump marines, both with plasma pistols. Thankfully, the sergeant with the pfist died (wound allocation...)

Turn 5, SM: The Tetras are targeting by the sniper scouts and go down. The remaining combat scouts charge Farsight's unit. The jumper plasma pistols actually go after the hammerhead side armour and stun it. The charge of krak grenades misses. The devastators down the mobile devilfish, but the FWs inside are fine. In combat, Farsight loses his last bodyguards, but kills off the last combat scout and the techmarine. leaving Khan and Cassius alone. Sadly, Farsight lost his remaining comrades and failed his leadership check. Luckily, he did get away. Unluckily, the Ironclad's drop pod was never killed and made farsight eventually flee off the table (thought not before killing the last of the jump marines).

Turn 6, Tau: The broadsides fail to avenge Farsight thanks to Iron Halos. It was a sad day. The hammerhead also failed. The deathrain crisis suits killed the drop pod with a vengeance. The Fire Warriors stayed out of range of the sniper scouts. The helios team also hangs back.

Turn 6, SM: The devastators try and take out a broadside, but they miss and I save with the shield drones. Khan and Cassius hide to avoid being railgunned again. The scout missile launcher bounces off the hammerhead.

Quote:

Remaining: Tau
Broadsides, Hammerhead, both FW teams (minus devilfish), helios team, deathrain team, hammerhead

Remaining: SM
-wounded cassius, wounded khan, sniper scouts, lascannon devastators

It was an excellent game with a lot that could have gone in different ways. The main aspect of the game, however, which made it different, was that the combat unit of the scouts and the assault squad were both forced to hesitate because of Farsight's presence. Both together can take Farsight, but individually, not as much (though scouts with furious charge hurts). He also attracted a lot of fire that should have been aimed at the Tetras, but if he hadn't been shot up so much, he might have lived vs Khan's assault. Sadly, the helios crisis suits never got to unload on anybody, but alas, that can happen. Especially if all that ever gets near them are three attack bikes and ten marines out of 12" and behind cover. On the plus side, there assault let the broadsides shoot again.

What are people's thoughts? Also, if the battle report is unclear, tell me. I'm rather tired right now and I wanted to get the highlights down. I think that everything is covered, but if something isn't let me know.

Cheers!

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 06 2012 03:38

That is a very clever use of the failsafe detonator you've thought up, it's just a shame we didn't get to see it in use. Well done for spotting that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to use the detonator you first need to lose combat, fail a leadership test and then avoid being swept? I think a tactic such as this should at the least be considered for any short range crisis units. Even if they get assaulted there is still a chance they can do a lot of damage as everyone just tends to pile in.

On a side note all this talk of stealth teams has made me wonder two things. Firstly, has anyone tried a full eighteen stealth suit army with Shadowsun? Infiltrate or outflank them all together. Her leadership bubble does then, in fact support a good chunk of your army while being able to utilize her short ranged weaponry. The great thing about this is it still leaves about five-hundred points of other stuff on your side of the table to hit the enemy from range in a fifteen-hundred point game.

Secondly, sniper drones. They are an okay unit, it's just the fact they take up railgun slots and aren't exactly cheap. There is one important thing that nobody has picked up on though. They are expensive because they have a stealth field generator. You need box cars to hit them at their maximum range. Anything beyond thirty six inches and you're laughing. Place them somewhere out of the way of your main firebase and watch them harass your opponent's army without them being able to do anything about it unless they direct resources towards them. I'm also pretty sure the drone controller has a markerlight.

Do you think either of these ideas have potential?

Por'Ui · **Posted:** Jun 06 2012 06:36

@shasocastris,
An interesting battle report. I've also liked the rules for Farsight, however the love of my Kroot has always overpowered any such desire to purchase him. The only blip I noticed in your report was that in your turn 4, the Hammerhead somehow manages to fire twice. Did you intend one of those to be the Broadsides, or is your crew just really good at their job?

@Space Pope II,
I would try out the Stealthed-up list, but I don't have enough models. :sad:

It does sound fun however, and I hope someone does end up trying it out and posting back.

I've also been incited by this thread to write up a few Unorthodox themed lists. I'm planning to organize a few battles with each over the next handful of weeks. When I'm finished, I'll post back any successful results.

Shas'La · **Posted:** Jun 06 2012 06:57

I have the same problem as you model-wise, not to mention the fact armies are limited to 1000 points where I play. Good luck with your battles.

Another idea that has come to mind involving the failsafe detonator and SparkSovereign's idea, using drones to increase initiative in assault.
The problem with the failsafe detonator is it requires you to pass the initiative test for retreating before it is activated. If you were to equip a crisis team with the detonator and two gun drones each it gives you majority initiative four and a majority toughness of three. The lower toughness means that it is easier to cause wounds, meaning it is more likely for you to fail your leadership test. The initiative four then means you have a good chance of getting away and activating the detonator. Afterwards you are left with a two man crisis team who should be majority toughness four again due to the loss of drones. You are then free to punish the unit that just assaulted you even further with shooting. I feel it has potential. Thoughts?

Por'Ui · **Posted:** Jun 06 2012 07:16

To the extent of my knowledge, the Fail-safe Detonator negates any Sweeping Advances as well as consolidations, so an initiative test isn't actually required.
The thought on lowering the average toughness is an interesting one though, and it has a few merits and flaws that I can see. Firstly, as you mentioned, it will allow the enemy to wound the unit easier, causing a failed leadership test to be more likely. Secondly, It creates ablative wounds so that you can lose the combat significantly without actually suffering much to your battle-suits.
As for its faults, the main one that sticks out to me is the fact that the unit will have a lower toughness for any shooting attacks prior, which could negate this benefit for combat before the assault begins. It could also allow the enemy unit to wound your Crisis Suits more easily in the combat, and potentially cause more damage to your unit than otherwise would have occurred, however this is largely negated due to the second merit.

I would personally use shield drones instead of gun drones, but that is simply my personal preference, as they help to negate low AP wounds from shooting earlier on.
I might just go out on a limb here, and suggest that an Ethereal could augment this strategy. The re-roll on passed morale checks could help ensure that your Surviving Battle Suits run away. Really, I think that Ethereals would be worth their points completely if they didn't make your force run away at their death. Perhaps with a few specific tactical bonuses that they could grant (such as this), they may in fact prove their worth.

Shas'Ui · **Posted:** Jun 06 2012 07:30

I think Space Pope II's idea For sniper drones has some merit. Place them off to the sides of your firebase(s) so that an enemy charging towards the firebase is subject to their fire but doesn't get to close.

The enemy then has to make a decision about going after your base or letting a unit firing multie St 6 AP 3 shots go ignored. In either situation there will be less transports and less MEQs hitting your lines simultaneously as the Drones will pop transports, kill MEQs, draw units towards them and maybe even pin something.

I love forcing my opponents onto the horns of a dilemma.

Shas'Ui · **Posted:** Jun 06 2012 03:07

The failsafe detonator is triggered by failing a sweeping advance, actually. As for stealth suits, I've used up to 15 successfully but haven't bothered to try to find a way to efficiently increase the size of my SMT. When I return to civilization I'll post up 2 of my better anti tank builds. One of the off putting parts to most people about stealths is that they appear to have a mixed (confused) purpose on the battlefield, but with liberal use of target locks and the unit can actually become a very versatile unit. In truth, the biggest failing of stealths is their short ranged weapons and lack of close combat ability, but that is a common problem with many Tau units.

Unorthodox Tau Army Analysis.

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