My friend has recently come back to the 40k universe; he's chosen to play space marines and has built an army that houses a lot of long range weapons, in addition to some tacticals and assaults. This means that i won't be able to rely on the Tau's long range firepower as much as i would like to. I was thinking that i could counteract his tactics by using vespids and pathfinders as they can dart from cover to cover. As this is just a theory and i'm stil fairly new to the army I would appreciate having some experienced feedback.

T113,

have you read over the academy articles at all?

I learnt a lot there before I faced my opponents.

However one key strategy of the Tau should still work very well for you, Jump-Shoot-Jump, and if you are playing on a table with a reasonable amount of cover even better.

(Fireknife/Helios suits jumping within 12", unloading then jumping away again)

If there is no cover consider using Kroot/Gun drones as mobile cover saves

Different styles work for different people, so in the end there is no substitute for experience

Good luck!

Novawing

I've only played with them a few times, but pretty much everyone agrees that Vespids are not worth the points or the money. They tend to get killed before they get close enough to use their guns. As for long range fights, disruption pods are definitely a good idea to put on all of your vehicles (you should probably always be taking them, but against long range armies, they will almost always give you a save.) Other than that, the only advice i can give you is hard hitters like broadsides and units with JSJ (as Novawing already said).

What kind of long range space marines is he using? If he's more infantry based then your broadsides are going to be less effective, if he is based off of vehicles your broadsides will be worth their weight in gold. Most Space marine players spam a lot of rockets rather then las cannons as the rockets are much cheaper, and just as good at taking out marines and better at taking out weaker troops. This is a really nice plus for our broadsides as it means our shield drones on them that have 2+ save can fairly safely take the hits making the broadsides with some shield drones a real tar pit to take down.

If he's got a lot of dudes and no real tanks I prefer the broadside for the sub munitions or the super cheap ion cannon. The ion cannon is a discount build most people don't like but with some cheap burst cannons it gives you a lot of shots at 18". Again if he's more static maybe sniper drone teams, they are great at taking out marines and I hear they were really good last edition when marines did their missile launcher spam while being static.

As Tau though our deployment and target priorities are critical and sometimes difficult. Look at the whole breadth of your opponents army and ask yourself what is the scariest shooting thing in it. Probably should be one of your first targets. Devastator squads give out a lot of shots but when the bodies start dropping so do the rockets, in a tactical squad you kill a lot of bolter marines first. Deployment and baiting can remove a lot of units effectiveness for a couple turns. If you deploy a fast unit like a piranha on the edge of your army people will sometimes try and line a unit up against it. The piranha can happily zoom away to hunt a tank or something and then the marine player needs to figure out whether it's better to move or take 1 missile launcher shot.

At the end of the day with anybody against space marines 3+ saves are very difficult to get through. On any given day their save gives them a chance to get lucky not die and win the game, so don't get discouraged it goes the other way too some days you'll get lucky.

So far he hasn't gto any vehicles although I think he's going to get a rhino sometime soon but his devistator squad has mainly las and plasma cannon's.
I never realised how bad the vespids are as i've only played a few skirmishes with my FW and Crisis, maybe they should have been given the infiltrate rule so they at least have a bit of a chance to do some damage

The vespids are a vestige of a bygone era in which they were usable but extremely difficult to use well. With that much ap 2 shield drones are your friends. Actual shield drones are a pain to hunt down but with a gun drone and shield generator they are pretty easy to convert. I'd say to not particularly worry about vehicles. Against his list I'd actually advise suit and kroot spam.

Forgive me if my stats or any speculation is a little off about other armies' abilities. I've played many, but not all units and therefore am not fully knowledgeable as to other armies' ranged capabilities, etc. Although my speculation below as to Tau units is accurate (being that I have done these things myself successfully), even if someone else has a different experience.

Markerlights
Make sure you read up on what these do. Many of your vehicles (drones, stealth suit leaders, tanks equipped with instead of a burst cannon) can shoot these while moving. I don't want to risk anything, but look in your codex. They are worth the effort. Also, all you have to do is give each person shooting one a target lock and a multracker. They can mark any unit/character but still fire their weapon (although unless it is networked) they can't use their own shot markerlight. Not a big issue though.

Pathfinders
Although I haven't played for too long as of yet, I have some experience in overpowering range by using Tau range. Personally, one of the teams I try to fashion in every gameplay is a unit or two (even two half units) of rail rifle pathfinders.

By giving the space marines less options (our range typically seems to be better than most) by covering their possible openings in deployment, even if you place second or later, you have a better chance at more damage ranged than most. Lascanons specifically I have dealt with and always try to deal with by use of my rail rifle team, second resort, smart missile equipped tanks, third, my command team of suits (not the stealth suits) jumping in and out of cover.

The carbines are also underestimated. Just as you should incorporate a couple using it in each firewarrior team for pinning, the pathfinders with carbines can not only pin, but all carry a markerlight. Knock down their cover save (but don't waste markerlights paste a cover save over their armor save or they will just take that). Knock down a units leadership, cover, and up your unit's ballistic capabilities. The only reason its hard to use these carbine pathfinders is the "heavy" markerlight.

Vespid
I really like the vespid idea. I want more really badly, and with the leader still alive, that team is able to utilize the markerlights. Way nice. In addition, as you likely know, they don't take dangerous terrain tests when jumping from cover to cover. Lastly, their weapons are actually not bad at all, and it will keep his ranged guy in check when you are able to move in fast and hopefully push him out into your rail rifles' lines of sight. The always tend to forget you have those high damage, long range beauties. But remember, they call vespid space marine killers because thats what they do. With a slightly better gun, they can move further and faster and utilize more cover more easily. With a small team, you are able to sweep up, or at least distract a couple units while your long range/infiltrators get into position.

Rereading your posts, I didn't realize they don't have infiltrate. Hmm, well the one benefit then is, in say a city campaign, they can run and flank, building to building, or forest to forest. Their fast movement will be distracting to your opponent, and aren't entirely expensive.

Firewarriors
One thing I'm considering doing is having a half team of pathfinders with carbines scout out before turn 1, then a transport full of firewarriors (9 rifles 3 carbines(for pinning purposes) and 1 leader for markerlighting an extra) follow, catch up, disembark. Then, the two separate teams can follow behind the transport who also deployed his two gun drones to make assault even more difficult. The pathfinders pause a turn and markerlight, the firwarriors pin and kill. Putting on a decoy launcher and that will help keep that transport alive also. You get a cover save from transports because they hover. It is ok to shoot at people through it because most everyone has a better or similar armor save. If the enemy does not have an armor save, then use the markerlights to make their cover save nil and increase your ballistic skill.

Kroot
Third, don't underestimate the Kroot. Infiltrate them and flank. Best anti-range tactic. Plus, I've had fun making space marines take forever to move a team up because my kroot are distracting them, even possibly making them do their "drive-by." Then my kroot assault and win in one or two rounds of assault. Almost always plan to assault with kroot, unless there is too few things to take care of enemy unit wise. You want that extra attack. Don't give it to the enemy charging units who all think kroot are as weak and slow as the rest of the Tau force.

Stealth Suits
Lastly, the stealth suits are amazing for taking care of things like that. Equip a couple seeker missiles on a tank (if you don't have the Skyray). Markerlight a tank or heavy armor threat when you infiltrate and flank with them. Also, remember, its difficult to hit them from range because of the stealth field, and they are assaulted as though they are in cover. They have large fire power and can trail any drones alongside. Consider them. Additionally, keep in mind, they have the jetpack as well, like the other suits. They can Jump Shoot Jump as well.

Ultimately, vespids are underused and for no good reason. Never underestimate the Kroot. Everyone else does, and that is your benefit. Stealth suits are pricey for a reason, but applicable in every situation, every point range. And rail rifles are irreplaceable. For the most part, most all these units are unappreciated by many Tau players, therefore unappreciated by non Tau players. By using their abilities correctly, you can really irritate a Space Marine squad.


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Edit
Forgive me, I looked further into the rules and realized teams of pathfinders cannot alone be rail gun operators. It will, at most, have to be a team of 5 carbine, 3 railgun. At worst though this is beneficial. Now your strategically placed snipers have a reason to be closer, but not too close, and have a team to not only support them but also place markerlights. Sorry for that mistake. I'm still getting used to the game mechanics.

thanks guys, i knew it was a good choice join ATT
this has deffinately helped me out a lot. I read through the articles but i sometimes truggle to take everything on board so the shorter explinations were exactly hat i was looking for so thanks a lot to Tobiasfunke for that, really appreciate it

Just be sure to re-read your post before replying. Remember, proper spelling and punctuation (which includes capitalization) is a prerequisite here at ATT.

Sorry about that, I'll be more careful in future

Thank you. We do expect high standards from all members. ~ E.

More than welcome!

My knowledge is not extensive by any means, but I put myself in enough weird situations to have an opinion. Good luck playing!

At this point I have to suggest that the Ion Cannon armed Hammerhead is a perfect solution to the "Space Marine Problem". I almost always run two of them in my armies, armed simply with two burst cannons for extra punch. They aren't subtle in any sense... they simply point at a target and shoot it some!

A pair, boosted by some markerlight support can really put out the hurt on any MEQ unit.

They might loose out on the heavy punch of the Railgun, but my IonHeads can still perform good anti-transport duty (particularly Rhinos/Razorbacks) and each one saves me about 50pts over my standard RailHead set up. Over the two in my army that is a full 100pts... and that can get you a pair of fusion armed XV8 suits to offset the loss of anti-tank punch anyway!

For marine players, the enemy having a powerful anti-marine gun on the board might also help take some attention off of any vespid on the field - which otherwise tend to be high priority targets.

Thanks for that Oink I'm deffinatley going to use Ion heads then, hopefully i'll be able to use them to perform a pincerattack or something

You could deep strike crisis teams, and drone squads, to get up close with his long range units, with a fusion blaster. Or you could put kroot in a designated transport and use them to take out the long range units.

I agree with carter, deepstriking in crisis suits is a good way to take care of long ranged units. not so crazy about the kroot in devilfish idea though... if they get the devilfish to explode, you pretty much lost 2 units at 1 go.

Ion cannons are great versus marines but takes away crucial slots that you need for railguns. Just something to take note of.

Deep Striking your Crsisis team like this will pretty much guarantee you losing that squad with the return fire it will suffer. Better to use a large bunch of Kroot with Kroot hounds, outflank them and get into assault with the long-range unit. That way you protect them from return fire as they cannot be targeted, and most heavy weapons units are not great at combat.

Just also to point out that Kroot don't get dedicated transports; they can use someone else's though but just not start the game mounted in it.

E.

True, it can be difficult to keep them alive when you deepstrike them in, so you must be very careful about where they go down. Also make full use of the assault jump when you deepstrike in to get them to safety as best you can.

If the opponent is sitting back and guarding his long range troops, it would probably be better to deepstrike them in a safe place instead and continue exchanging long-range fire. In such a case, the act of deepstriking has already served its purpose. One of the biggest problems from shooty marines lists is when they advance aggressively while supported by long-range units. If their sitting back, you should be able to outshoot them and win.

Large kroot units are great and all. But it takes great skill to get them into close combat with a long-range unit, especially if the opponent has flamers or has any troops nearby.

Crisis suits and Stealth suits do not get to make an assault jump when they arrive from deepstrike.

You must remember that a properly built space marine list can actually outshoot us quite easily. You must overwhelm the key units.

I see. Just for my sake though, where in the rules does it say this?