I've been playing tau for a while now and my original doubts about their inability to win anything have been put to rest with a few key victories. My current problem though is that I am going to participate in a 'Soul Storm' like campaign tournament. Each person has 3000pts but has to split their forces to attack and defend. The problem arises from me not being able to construct an army that can deal with different races rather than a specially built single purpose Tau force.

I'll be up against Space Wolves, Necron, Dark Eldar and Ultramarines. Any tactic that applies for one will be useless against another.

Space Wolves are nasty in CC but still pack a punch at ranged combat, long Fangs and Preditors with lascannons potentially screwing up my broadsides and tanks if they get the first turn. If I get in a fistfight with them its game over so gotta keep them away. I would go for the mecha heavy army with lots of plasma and fusion weapons. low volume, high power attacks.

Necron have the 'night fight' special rule that takes away my range advantage and however hard I hit them they keep standing back up. In CC they have lots of special rules like 'mind scarab' to take away what little combat advantage I might gain from the higher initiative. I could equip all my stuff with 'blacksun filters' but then its wasted points against all of the other armies I'll be facing. mass attacks from burst cannons and other high attack weapons seem a good option, maybe some kroot to bog them down a bit.

Dark Elder have proven to be real trouble for me in the past. Their Dark Lances are a match for my Rail Guns and the crazy amount of CC attacks puts even the Space Wolves to shame. They're also speedy little blighters. Luckily they have bad armour saves but the lords can have pretty crazy rules like a 2+ invulnerable save until the first time it's failed.

The Ultramarines are a heavy army in this case, lots of terminators and tanks. I'm pretty confident about them as long as I can destroy the Landraider before it destroys my heavies. Only if I have a high AP army though...which wouldn't be as effective against the Necron... You see the problem.

So is there a universal style army the is going to play well against all of these armies. Luckily nobody is bringing a horde army or I really would have two extremes to deal with. Can it be done or are Tau destined to forever fail in tournaments? Any thought, ideas or tips?

I was hoping for a new codex to choose from by then but it's not looking good. Since that isn't an option, I'll rely upon my fellow brothers and sisters of the Greater Good. Guide me well so that we may add a new system to the glorious Tau Empire!

You could attempt for a mass volume of fire approach to deal with the Eldar and also roll your way past armor save rolls. Maybe a large team of stealth suits, firestorm configuration crisis suits, pathfinders to boost BS and reduce cover saves, and I would also lean towards more railheads vs more broadsides. The flexibility given to you by the submunition shot should be useful when firing at eldar, space marine scouts, some necron units, etc.

Broadsides will solve a lot of your problems here.

Against Space Wolves: Railguns can pop open his razorbacks quite effectively, which really cuts down on his ability to hurt you at range. In a pinch, or if there are no better targets, they can also fire at the longfangs to cut down on the missile launcher counts.

Against Dark Eldar: The Tau have been noted by the author of the DE book as being the antithesis of the dark eldar. Your Broadsides will mutilate their vehicles (a large source of their dark lances) and the smart missile systems can be used to good effect against most of his foot slogging units once the railgun targets are taken care of.

Against Necrons: Their effectiveness can be a bit of a problem here with the night fighting rules, so you may consider blacksun filters on at least some of your broadsides to mitigate this. Outside that though they are still an excellent way of dealing with the harder to crack necron units.

Against Ultramarines: Much of the same applies here that works for the space wolves. Railguns will deal with the land raider before it is too much of a problem (unless you're quite unlucky) and the railguns can be turned against his terminators once he has been demeched.

As for the rest of your list, you still need movement blockers to keep your opponent at bay (kroot / devilfish / piranha) and other long range shots to engage the enemy from range (which both the dark eldar and space wolves will try to do, and possibly a good chunk of the other two lists) so missile pods are you friend here.

I personally would favor the rail head over the broadsides. They are more expensive, but the submunition is hugely effective against lightly armored opponents and even Necron warriors. You also get burst cannons pretty cheaply, and the pair of them puts out 2 more shots than the SMS.

Yeah, but the hammerhead does nothing a unit of crisis suits can't accomplish. Against a competent opponent, the large blast should never be hitting more than 3-4 targets and your tank should be moving (to avoid enemies getting within the disruption pod bubble) and therefore the burst cannons can rarely, if ever, be fired. Add that to the fact that you can get two broadsides for the price of a hammerhead, with the option of adding a third to the same force org slot, and you can quickly see that broadsides will overtake the effectiveness of the hammerhead.

I suggest you look at Peregrine's Mech IG Test and compare a broadside heavy list to a hammerhead one. It serves as an excellent testament to both the power of mech, and the ineffectiveness of the hammerhead. I understand the test is written with an IG list, but it's not too difficult to translate it to razorbacks (and AV12 is harder to deal with than AV11).

Now, if your opponents are bad, and heavily cluster their units up for your templates, while also neglecting to bring armor to protect them, then sure you can beat them with a suboptimal list. But this thread is about tournament play and tournament lists, so I would say it's fair to assume your opponents will be bringing the best options available to them. That means we have to as well, and that means broadsides over hammerheads.

Maybe it goes without saying but every army we face has some unit that really doesn't want to get near crisis suits armed with plasma, the lone exception to this maybe being Guard which it looks like you're not worried about. In my experience, between feel no pain and 2+/3+ saves (every army you're talking about has one or the other or both) you can't really go wrong with ample plasma. It might be obvious but it is perhaps a good place to start.

Even still in tournament settings you will go up against more then just mech lists. While the mech list is the most favored you will see some hoard lists. Specializing against just one type of enemy will leave you weak against others.

While normally true...



We don't have to worry about it in this discussion. That being said, Broadsides are still better per point than a hammerhead when dealing with hordes (you get 2 SMS for roughly the cost of the hammerhead, meaning 8 shots for an average of 4-6 hits depending on BS, which is more than the hammerhead's max of 3-4 when moving and shooting) excepting cases where the hammerhead is not moving and firing both of its burst cannons. However, I can't imagine a reasonable case where you'd want to be within 18" of an opponent to fire those burst cannons unless you heavily have the upper hand already.

Well from all of your feedback, everyone seems to agree on lots of high AP weapons to reduce everything to a nasty stain. That sounds fair so I'll expand my question - lots of 'cheaper' high AP squads with as little upgrades as possible or more expensive super elite squads with as lots of useful equipment like target array. More firepower but poorer units or less firepower but more powerful units?

While the Broadside gives you more volume of fire it still opens you up to losing that unit to lasgun fire. Tanks like the Hammerhead bring two things to the field that the Broadside cant do as well, speed and durability. While it is true that other races have faster and more viable options, this is a Tau discussion. It is also true that the Broadsides have a 2+ save and 2 wounds per and in cover a 4+ similar to what the Disruption pod gives the hammer head, the same argument can be said about just simply leaving your tanks in cover.

For the comparison of durability lets compare the toughness aspect of a Suit to a stock HH chassis. To wound a broadside it takes a range of anywhere from a s1-sD to be able to inflict a wound on the unit, while it takes a s7+ hitting the front side but lets be generous and say its hitting from the rear and say the enemy is hitting rear Armour. it still would require a minimum s4 to inflict a glance on a 6+, the same requirement to force a 2+ save on a broadside from a s1 weapon. And lets face it, the avg infantry weapon is a s3 or better.

Also being brought the the table with the Hammerhead is speed. Normally the configuration I bring to the table averages 170pts per hammerhead, and that is because the unit is equipped with tactics I am accustomed to using. That being said the unit comparison is a 1v1 approach and in most games you are not consolidating your army to handle the enemy in squad vs squad combat, your focusing your fire (or at least you should be) into enemy units that have become priority, or that have become separated from the enemy's main forces thus providing little back up or counter move to save your prey. Being able to pounce on this is where speed comes in, something that a broadside has trouble dealing with. using speed I can bring my skimmers to bear (all of them at once) and lay into a unit with full volume of fire (with the help or target-locks and multi-trackers of course). Even with A.S.S. you would be giving up Targeting Arrays, or multi-trackers to compensate for positioning.

But when you start comparing up points costs to what you get, it ultimately comes down to what roles do you need filled in your army, and your play style.



On a separate note there are a few cases where you do want to get into that 18" burst cannon range.
Example 1). last turn of a tournament and you have the bottom of the turn, ensuring the enemy does not get to strike back and you need to full focus your entire army.
Example 2). the enemy makes his move and wiffs badly, or gets too greedy and now opens you to bring large amounts of your army into a firing solution.
Example 3). a close objective game and you need to hold out for one more turn, offering up bait.
ETC.Etc.etc.

As there are many uses for, there are many as well as more on why not to, but the point I am wanting to make is not that it is a viable tactic, its giving yourself the ability and option to employ it safely, then doing so that wins you games. And that takes durability to last until the enemy makes a mistake, speed to get into position to take advantage of the mistake, strength through volume and firepower to maximize it, and lastly experience to recognize this and not get too greedy yourself.

@Mon Korst'la
Personally I prefer volume over elite because if I lose that high point squad due to some bad rolls that is a game changer for me. With the more en mass units I can afford to lose the squad with less points wholesale usually and still not be as affected though. But at the same time it also is dependent on if my army has been built with enough overlapping coverage to do the job. Also it gives the enemy more targets to select from increasing the chances of the units you want to stay alive the whole game actually staying alive.

I'd have to agree with Huru overall, more units that are less super elite are better mostly. While I'm not sure I'd use the word "super elite", for me the loan exception to this would be Crisis Suits because they are set up to fulfill a lot of the "heavy lifting" and I want to be sure that they are effective. What Huru said about losing a costly unit to bad dice rolls is a real concern, but along those lines, having some Terminators baring down on you who already have a 4++ from TH/SS you don't want to be missing with half of your plasma shots...that's my thought process.


I've been doing a lot of thinking on this topic of a "multi-purpose"/ all comers Tau list and I've been playing games against different opponents and I've sort of come to this conclusion, which I'll offer as a suggestion to you Mon Korst'la-

Points allowing, (at 3000 they are there for sure though I'm not entirely sure how that split you're talking about works) I always take 3 units of XV8s, essentially as the core of my army. They look something like this-

1 HQ Squad (Shas'EL + 2 Body Guards) Plasma/Missile Pods/ Multi Trackers- I give the body guards a target lock so the whole unit is hitting on 3+ and I usuallt put two sheild drones on the El and a gun drone on each guard. Sometimes I'll also give the El (or one of them, it doesn't really matter) a target lock.

1 HQ Squad (Shas'El + 2 Body Guards)- Plasma/Fusion Blasters/ Multi Trackers- otherwise same as above

1 Elite Squad (Shas'Vre + 2 Shas'ui)- the Shas'vre is either Plasma/MP or Plasma/FB with a multi Tracker, TA, and a Target lock. The two Shas'ui are twin linked Plasma each with a shield drone (maybe also with a gun drone each if the points are there)

Sometimes I take another elite squad of Deathrains, but that's not important here. I've had very good success with the three units above against strong opponents. The only real choice for you to make is on the Elite squad- do you want to give the Shas'vre a MP or a FB, based on what you're planing to be going up against I'd go with the FB. I like to keep all three of these units together and focus fire on good save units and it's all the more satisfying if they have FNP, which becomes worthless. It is expensive, but I don't consider it "super elite" as I skip out on things like Shield Generators, targeting arrays on the Els, stimulant injectors, etc. I find these three units throw out a large enough number of shots to deal with hordes and a large enough number of low AP shots to deal with MEQs with or without FNP.

That is my advice for a core "multi-purpose" army.

Thanks for all the advice everyone. Allow me to pick your collective brains again. Should Kroot be included. I realise that against Marines they are pretty pointless but against Necron they might just show their worth. Cheap units, lots of CC attacks for taking down weaker units such as scarabs. Should also be able to hold up an average Necron unit for a few turns, allowing me to focus my firepower more efficiently. Against all of the other armies I'll be facing they won't be very useful though. Is it worth spending the points?

About Kroot- @1500 I like to take two 10 man squads, maybe three. Many players use them as "meat shields" or movement blockers, I like to try to play "fluffy" and not put them in positions of certain death. Normally I don't assault with them at all (unless I'm playing guard and even then it's sort of iffy because they have the same initiative)...if you plan on assaulting with them (which I personally don't recommend) take hounds.

I like to use them more like lures/diversions, I'll infiltrate them forward, usually I can get a unit to chase after them, they eventually lead that unit back to a firing lane circa turn 3 or 4 after other threats have ideally been dealt with. I always keep them in terrain if possible and usually during the first few turns while serving as a lure I like them to run instead of shooting. If woods/jungles are on the table they are really good at this, otherwise if you get bad difficult terrain rolls this won't always work.

In my experience Kroot do not do very well against Necrons, I've tried it a few times, it didn't go so well. Necrons have staying power in CC and Kroot don't. You'll kill a few, he'll hit back and probably kill just as many or maybe one or two less or more, you'll likely fail the resulting leadership test if he kills more than you and if he kills less and has to take a leadership test it's likely he'll still be passing on an 8 or 9 and therefore staying in combat for another round in which you'll have less kroot, each with one less attack.

Kroot do offer you a cheap way to get high volume of fire for a cheap price, a squad of 20 coming in at less than 150 points and can put out 40 rapid fire shots of basically bs3 bolter fire, sticking them in cover is a necessity but if your looking for a cheap unit that can hold objectives kroot are your best bet from the tau codex, as mentioned by yazchar you can add 12 hounds and make it a blob if you really want it to hold on to an objective for around 200 points.

However the base 10 kroot yazchar mentions aren't much use for anything other than meat shields. Not enough fire power to impact most squads and instantly pulverised in CC, If you want to make a use of kroot in your strategy in anything other than blocking I’d suggest 20 minimum, I personally run a minimum of 2 squads of 30 at 2000 points, in for a penny in for a pound and all that.

Are FW units allowed in your campaign, I think with the recent update to the Tau units there you might find a few additional options there (particularly Tetras and Hazard suits).

As for Kroot -

They are so inexpensive and numerous, especially since you will not be including the kroot gun, that it would be dumb not to ASSUMING you are facing at least some infantry.

Infiltrate
They are, as you know, able to setup a flank. With multiple kroot units, you can setup a multiple flank. This may not be amazing, BUT it will hide the also infiltrating (hopefully) stealth suits that can markerlight and seeker missile (just put a couple under a tank) heavy vehicles early on. Additionally, they are meat shields, as mentioned above, that will distract and possibly annoy your opponent. Even if he blows them away in one or two turns, you've stalled an assault advance, and you hurt his tactical setup.

Firepower
Really isn't bad with these guys. plus, forests, if they are frequented, give you a better cover save and free movement.

Melee
Against Eldar and that especially, it is my experience that, especially if you initiate the assault, you get the upper hand. The initiative isn't amazing, but you have so many guys it doesn't matter. Plus, their weapons enable them to apply two melee attacks. Hounds are cheap as well, and the two or three shapers you are ultimately buying are not an amazing increase in full army point cost.

i would go heavy on sniper drones, low AP and high strength would cut most space marines down (but i'v never used them).

@Carter
If you've not used Sniper Drones then how can you make an argument for them? I suggest you re-read the primers and "post only what you know". If you'd used them you would know that they are very difficult to use effectively, and expensive to boot. Of all the AP3 weapons Tau can bring to the field, SDTs are the least effective option. I can say that from experience.

Given the kind of campaign you're playing, you may not know the troops you'll be facing, but you will know the terrain to expect. If you're holding urban or even better, forest terrain, then go heavy on kroot. XV8s in a mixture of firestorm, fireknife and deathrain configurations are all useful against the kind of opponents you'll be facing in virtually any terrain. Broadsides are great, well worth the points, but can be awkward to use in very cluttered terrain.

I'd also suggest considering not contesting ground that doesn't suit your forces. Not only is it fluffy, it just makes good sense. Losing one province to annihilate your opponent is a good strategy, especially when you then roll back in and take it back later. Will you be like the computer game and be gaining more points to spend when you take more territory? A careful scan of the map will allow you to avoid stationing large garrisons in provinces, allowing you to spend more points on your attacking force.

Your best bet is weight of fire and high mobility. use the tau's flexible deployment options like kroot and crisis deepstrike to target the opponents army piece by piece. The hammerhead is actually a bad choice for this particular set of foes, specifically because of the high likeliness that the opponent can score glancing hits, especially the necrons. if you're glanced, either you're not shooting, or worse. you've permanently lost the weapon or vehicle. anti-vehicle weapons on vehicles is normally a good combo, but in the Tau army, its too obvious of a target, and the Tau infantry are the ones carrying all the weapons. stick to broadsides, Despite what people may say about the vulnerability to small arms fire, losing 1-2 broadsides in a group of 3 over the course of the game is better than not being able to use that hammerhead 75% of the game.

however, the devilfish or piranha's will serve well specifically because they will soak up anti-tank fire and you will lose relatively little. opponents often target the devilfish because it A, screens the crisis suits, and B, contests very well late game. Every turn spent shooting the devilfish is 1 turn less spent shooting those longfangs or gauss weapons or lances at the truly important units, the crisis suits. If a glancing hit is scored, whoop de do, you lost the ability to fire that single burst cannon for a turn.

if you invest in ANY vehicles for your tournament, invest in stock devilfish (for excellent crisis protection) or piranha (for excellent screening of the opponents army.