I have been visiting this website regularly for over 2 months now, and I have heard a lot of tactics that involve a very basic maneuver, flanking. But here is where I am having trouble. What’s the use of flaking in 40k, I have looked over the rulebook and you get no bonus for firing from two different directions, so why do it. Most of the games that I have ever played were against space marines, and there is no practical use for flanking and eliminating a cover save (since the Space marine armor save is the same or better). I understand if it’s for low AP weapons but for units like fire warriors it seems pointless. If someone would please explain this to me I would be very grateful.

Just a few uses off my head.

1) Shooting at side/back armor on vehicles. For some vehicles, e.g. predators, chimeras, the front armor is much higher than the side. So shooting from the side is much better.

2) Distraction. Simply, if the opponent can advance towards one side, his decision is simple. If you shoot at him from two sides, the game becomes much more complicated. Which side does he advance towards, who does he shoot, or does he split his army? This is particularly relevant in conjunction with (3).

3) Tau tend to out-range the opponent. This means that even if we split up our army, we can still focus on a few target units easily. Our enemies on the other hand, if split up, can usually only target the unit their advancing towards.

Hope it helps!

It's handy for trying to get to those "out of reach units" i.e. devastators, artillery units etc. kept back and/or behind LOS blocking terrain. If you can tie them up in combat with kroot or even destroy the unit then brilliant! Job done, lads, now try to get back home without being killed .

Also having 20 kroot with hounds etc that can assault on the turn they arrive can be very disruptive for a unit caught by surprise by this tactic.
And there is objective grabbing. Provided you turn up on the right side of the board, you can put yourself into a position to grab an objective or contest one form the enemy which is always handy.

In my experience splitting your army up is pretty useless unless you have all very long ranged units. Having owned and played a variety of armies I can say that deployment is probably 25% of the game (list building being a huge part of the remainder).

Moving (or sitting still) with your entire army in one spot ensures that the entire enemy army cannot direct itself to fight 25% of yours. This goes out the window in a 2500 point game where you occupy an entire deployment zone but in games of 1000 to 1500 I find it best to just pack everything together.

All of the 'flanking' tactics just seem like optimism to have real world things happen on the table top.

just a quick clarification carter.

In the tactics that you have observed, are they referring to flanking as in literally positioning any two units on different sides of an enemy or flanking as using the very specific "Outflank" deployment rule? It is an important distinction and must be read in context to whatever tactic you are examining.

This is talking about the outflank deployment rule.

I have found that when playing against a CC heavy army with outflank units, I´m looking at you Genestealers, Tau have real problems getting their units set up due to the outflank rule.

This is because from turn 2 and onwards the outflankers can come onto the board and with the possibility of running in the shooting fase, having move though cover and still being able to assault a powerful CC unit can move up to 18" a turn and engage in CC.
Add to that the odds being stacked in favor of the units arriving "correctly", since they get 2/3 chance of arriving from the board side that places them the best, and you have a real nightmare for a Tau player.

This means that in essence the area that Tau can deploy their more squishy units is limited by 18" from both board sides. And that is just in the first turn that the reserves arrive on the board. Combine this with some deep striking monsters and you can deny Tau the only real advantages that we have which is firepower and mobility.

True, but we have the advantage of knowing what is going to outflank as it is declared during deployment and there is no guarantee they will show up at the first possible opportunity (can be made more likely with special rules etc but that's another story). Using this knowledge we can prepare ourselves by shifting about units. This includes moving sacrificial drone units etc into place to block a charge.

A way to counter this is to keep units in reserve and use the positonal relay to bring the unit you want in on a 2+ while holding others back to prevent them from being assaulted. Hold your outflankers back to counter attack any enemy outflankers when needed.

The problem with this is that by the time you have a chance to bring on your own outflankers to attack theirs it's usually already too late. In my experience, for outflanking units like genestealers or ork commandos, either they maul something the turn they arrive or they can't get to anything and then die horribly - at least, that's how it usually works against my Tau. If it's the former, then it doesn't really matter if your own outflankers come on behind them and kill them afterwards - I know *I'd* certainly be happy to trade a small squad of genestealers for an enemy crisis or broadside squad! And if they *don't* manage to get to something on the turn they arrive, you're probably better off using your kroot for another purpose, as keeping them off the table for several turns waiting to counter flankers that may or may not even come in at the right place means that they aren't being speedbumps, screens, bubblewrap, pushback, or any of the other things kroot are often used for.

Besides, killing the outflankers after they arrive doesn't prevent the biggest annoying consequence - the aforementioned 18" bubble from the sides of the board that you end up having to avoid. *That's* the real killer, as it severely restricts one of our biggest weapons against many armies - mobility. In a *lot* of cases you'll be wanting to fade away from an oncoming enemy towards one of the corners to keep away as long as possible, and nasty outflankers means that you have to either forgo that, accept the probable loss of a (or more than one, given multi-assaulting) critical unit and just hope he rolls badly for table side, or find some way to neutralize the outflankers *before* they strike.

Honestly, I find I end up preferring the last. The ability to use that extra 18" of table is just too important, so I've often been sacrificing a kroot squad by using them to line the table edge as far up as possible and denying the outflankers a place to deploy. Sure, they can still come in at the far end of the kroot line, but then they only get to charge the kroot and I can shoot them to smithereens. Where this has a tendency to fail, so far, is when there are too many squads of outflankers or when the kroot get shot up first. Two squads isn't usually too bad as they have to come in non-simultaneously and on the same side of the table to actually cause trouble, and there's a pretty good chance that at least one of those won't fly, but three squads is usually trouble. And while kroot going to ground on top of a pre-existing cover save are pretty darn resilient, they have a tendency to run away at the drop of a hat. I need more kroot models to field a big enough squad to minimize that.

I find outflanking useful in most situations. Agreed the whole 18" bubble is a little daunting, but if you don't mind loosing a unit or two taking down the opponent shouldn't be an issue. (It's war, some losses should be acceptable) Though I did have a question about the roll. The BRB says that each unit must be rolled for, this raises the question if you have multiple units in reserve, (Which I'm sure most people do) do you declare what units you are rolling for, or do you just roll for all your units then pick which ones to deploy first, or do you just roll once and all the units come in on that roll?

You must declare which unit is being rolled for, and then abide by that result. As a general you are not choosing which of your units turn up when. Instead you find out who makes it and then deal with the consequences.

I use the outflanking kroots in tandem with the positional relay specifically for point capturing purposes. In 90% of the games I play, there is always atleast 1 point about 13" off a table edge. or at the least, something that can be reasonably reached after 2 movement phases. Using the positional relay to bring in deep striking suits individually (for back armor meltas or simple fire support) allows for a turn 4 kroot rush for the points, which most armies cannot counter after withering 4 turns of casualties from the rest of the army. Since they are in reserve for the first 3 turns, they cannot be killed, and thus, the opponent cannot counter it aside from simply not losing anything for 3 turns.

Notice that this strategy is not focused on killing, but capturing points. which is a crucial factor in 66% of the games you'll play.

Certainly, some losses are to be expected. The problem is that outflanking units can often do damage all out of proportion to their size (especially against Tau) if they are allowed to attack unchecked, and so killing them after they've done their job still leaves you on the worse end of the exchange.

The two particular outflanking units I come up against most often at my local club are kommandos with two burnas and a PK nob and genestealers with a broodlord. Both will massacre almost any tau unit on the charge without breaking much of a sweat. In fact, both are quite capable of *multi* charging two units and still taking both of them out (or at least significantly damaging and tying them up, which is just as bad even assuming you *don't* break and get swept), and even 10 strong squads can cover a lot of ground if you spread them out - certainly enough to make it difficult to deny them a multicharge on *something* if you're actually trying to use that corner of the table to evade the main enemy army.

Killing the outflankers after they arrive isn't generally a problem. They'll often have taken a casualty or two (especially if they divided their effort between two targets), and neither is especially noted for resiliency. The problem is that, if you kill the outflanking unit, but only *after* it's dragged down a broadside squad and a couple of crisis suits, your opponent still comes out *way* ahead. Taking casualties happens. Taking them in the form of the complete loss of important units for such a paltry return is to be avoided, though, if possible.



The whole sequence goes as follows (reference pages 94-95 of the rulebook):

Under the heading 'rolling for reserves', we see that the first paragraph tells us to 'roll a dice for each of his units in reserve', and says that depending on the result the unit may have arrived. So, each dice goes with a specific unit, and you roll them in sequence, seeing which units arrive and which don't.

After that, the next paragraph tells us that 'Once all of the units have been rolled for, the player picks any one of the units arriving and deploys it'. So, each unit is rolled for individually as above, then once you know exactly who's showing up this turn, you deploy each unit one at a time in the order you choose. Note that it states that each unit must fully deploy before the next unit may begin deploying. This is important if the unit is arriving by outflank or deep strike.

The heading 'arriving from reserve' tells us how each unit actually moves onto the table when we choose to deploy it as directed above. This part isn't anything too complicated, just note that it's in this section that it specifically mentions that outflanking and deep striking units arrive by their own rules.

The 'outflank' heading is a key one here. Note the specific phrasing 'When an outflanking unit arrives from reserve the controlling player rolls a dice...' In other words, the outflank roll is made when this unit is actually being deployed on the table as directed by the 'arriving from reserve' heading. Thus, since you must fully deploy one unit before beginning the next, you can't make all your outflank rolls before you deploy them. So, if you have more than one, you have to fully deploy the first one before you know exactly where the second one will turn up (A similar situation applies for deep strike). This is in contrast to the situation with the original *reserve* rolls, where you know all of the units that are arriving before you begin deploying them. This is definitely important to hold your opponent to, as knowing whether or not his second squad of outflankers is coming right behind the first or across the table from them could definitely make a difference to the choice of exactly where to deploy them.

So, the entire sequence boils down as:
Roll for each unit individually to see if that unit arrives from reserves.
Repeat until all units have been rolled for.
Pick an arriving unit and deploy it. If it is outflanking or deep striking, make the relevant rolls *for this unit* at this time.
Pick another unit and deploy it, again making any relevant additional rolls *for that unit*.
Repeat until all units have been deployed.

I would assume the best way to deal with outflankers is to 'infiltrate' a unit of Kroot at max spread up one edge of the board. Then they can't come on that side (I think) as they need to move before they assault, and can't move within an inch of your kroot. Then either repeat for the other side or castle in the protected side. 10 Kroot should cover 30" (using both your base and their base to ensure that they can't come at the very bottom at your table edge because 2" gap - 1" model base = 1", which isn't allowed). Even if you don't fancy cutting off 2 and a half feet of board, you can stick the excess Kroot behind a tree, which depending on cover could give them all a 3+ save which your opponent needs to deal with to get his troops on.

Something somewhere had a battle report of White Scars vs Tau where the Biker scars went fully reserve, and the kroot lined up across the edge of the board to stop him getting on (so auto Tau victory!). This is the same principle, but to defend your flanks. Not bad for 70pts you were taking anyway. I know that someone else suggested this, but they complained they'd be shot. With a 4+/3+ save this shouldn't happen too badly, and if they get assaulted then, well, that's what the Kroot are in your army to do anyway (bubble wrap and tie up assaulty units).

Pantherus

In response to Shadow cat I was talking about actually putting two units on different sides of the enemy.

Figured as much. Didn't feel like correcting them since they were so excited about explaining outflanking

I would like to add to my original post that splitting up not only gives you many options in objective missions, but lets you keep a good number of units safe in KP missions.

But its subjective whether it would be useful in a situation. Careful study of the opponents army, terrain, and mission type is necessary before deciding on a split deployment.

On the defense.
A simple little buffer like a 10 man kroot squad sitting on each flank can act as an early deterrent.
This works well due to its low points cost, though in KP games its small size can make it a target, but the question is will the disadvantage out-way the advantage? Another Option is to use an econofish with a flettchette system on the flank with a full 12 man Fire warrior squad and Ensure the enemy does not have a melta. When your Gene-stealer friends come in hit up your transport, they take a few loses, you get out and rapid fire him to death, etc. One thing I have noticed is most new people when faced with outflankers worry about which side will the enemy come in on, and thin out your lines. Using a buffer on one end (placed to where it can handle the enemy coming in from most angles on that side). and keeping close in on that table edge makes the other side not as worrisome as it will take the enemy time to get to you if they come in on the wrong table edge.

For me personally I use a mixture of speed having a lot of Hammerheads and devilfish with multi trackers and adjust my fire as I see fit, and volume of fire by being able to stack pie plates on a single unit.

On the attack.
As I stated during a glance at defending against an outflank, most new players will split their forces up, one group going down the middle to assault you (the Tau player) one group protecting the right flank, one group protecting the left flank. And this is not counting back field support units. So as you can see just the presence of an out flanking unit in its own right can (not always) split up the enemy, leaving us to isolate and destroy the enemy forces one at a time.

But being able to use an outflanking unit requires you have the right unit come in at the right time on the right side to do this most effectively.

So the question first is what is the right unit for you?
Lets start by locating the units that can out flank
-Pathfinders
Like the basic fire warrior team, pathfinders are not very good at being able to win in hand to hand fighting. So why use them to outflank? EMP Commandos. Since the pathfinder team has only scout and not infiltrate this can give you a late game markerlight team to aid you as you begin a couter-push back into a late game drive, or it can allow you to catch an unsuspecting basilisk or land raider. For this unit to be most effective you need a good sizable distraction force to shift focus off this unit.

-Kroot
While the pathfinders may be more adept at tank hunting, the Kroot are more able in Hand to Hand. The down side to this being if your hit by a dread watching the enemy flank, it is all over. But having the ability to both infiltrate or outflank that gives the kroot even more tactical options, allowing you to be able to put them in the right place in the right time more often. Plus large units like a 20 man Kroot bomb plus 12 hounds makes a great shock value unit, which in most cases redirects fire from your front lines, increasing your units survivability at the cost of the kroots. For this unit to work best you need an army that can crack open transports allowing the kroot to fest on the squishy goodness inside.

-Stealth Teams
One of the most under rated outflanking units, but one of the most versatile, and most expensive. The burst cannons, aided by long range template shoots from hammer heads, allows for a quick clean up kill point on most squads, the fusion guns allow for tank hunting, and the ability to bring in a marker light and marker drones allows for a late game marker light unit, with higher durability over pathfinders. For this team to be most effective you need a lot of supporting fire to keep it from being locked in assault.

This can further be expanded on by having several units in your list that can multi-task between outflanking or a secondary task, allowing you to switch your flanking unit depending on your next opponent.

Coming in at the right time?
Sometimes it is best to come in as soon as you can, getting that first blow knocking your enemy back on the defensive so he cant come to you, no unit does this better then the Positional relay (in the tau armory) allowing you to come in on a 2+. But sometimes you need your outflanking unit to come in later in the game to keep it alive, or to bait your enemy into a better position. By having other units (most notably deep striking crisis teams designed to perform certain tasks, or fire warrior teams coming in via Devilfish for mid to late game objective steals) you can control the flow and tempo of when and with what comes on the board.

Coming in at the right place..
Sadly, this is one question the Tau really do not have an answer for. And the best response is to have a plan for what to do if the unit fails to come in where you need it. Units like pathfinders and stealth teams due this best with marker-light support, kroot can do this via distraction, contesting, or by small arms fire.

Conclusion
As like any plans, they never survive contact with the enemy (since of of the discussed tactic of this thread can be negated by simply holding an entire army in reserve), ultimately it comes down to deciding factors by the player of what units to field, the synergy to put behind those units, and the dice one rolls. This is just a basic glance at what can be done, and more advance options, synergy's, and complex situations can only be expanded on by additional articles (written, or unwritten currently) and field experience of knowing what is right when and where.

A reminder to stay on topic, guys. The opening poster has already clarified that he's referring to a split deployment, not outflanking.

Flanking is useful in several ways. For one, as has already been mentioned, to target the vulnerable side and rear armour on vehicles. For another, your weapons cover more of the board, so the bubble that is your "threat range" is extended considerably. For another, you can "pinch" in from the sides, this works especially well if you have a static target in the middle, and pinch from the rear/sides at the same time, cutting off the escape. This is one of the main subtactics of the "patient hunter" fire caste philosophy. Really, it is not done for rules so much as it is for tactics.

They are used for the same reason they are in real life.

For further reading, you may want to check here