Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

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Vector Strike
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Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#1 » Jun 17 2017 12:45


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Maxwell
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#2 » Jun 17 2017 12:55

Ok so question already. Are we supposed to be rolling multiple saves for multiple damage attacks? If I take an attack of 6 damage I roll 6 saves? Or is this only for the special abilities (stim injector/warlord trait in our case)

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Dut'ch
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#3 » Jun 17 2017 01:20

Maxwell wrote:Ok so question already. Are we supposed to be rolling multiple saves for multiple damage attacks? If I take an attack of 6 damage I roll 6 saves? Or is this only for the special abilities (stim injector/warlord trait in our case)


You roll to save the wound, not the damage, don't you? The damage comes after attempting to save the wound (and Feel No Pain etc).

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nic
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#4 » Jun 17 2017 01:37

Maxwell wrote:Ok so question already. Are we supposed to be rolling multiple saves for multiple damage attacks? If I take an attack of 6 damage I roll 6 saves? Or is this only for the special abilities (stim injector/warlord trait in our case)


I think the FAQ cleared that one up pretty well. One save prior to rolling damage - but then for special abilities which discount wounds you make one roll per damage received. So if a riptide with Stims takes a hit from a Melta it would be one save at 5+, if that fails and the Melta then rolls a 6 then it would be 6 attempts to roll 6+ for the Stims. If you also have Sense of Stone you would get two attempts at 6+ for each of those 6 damage generated.

If the initial 5+ passes then do not roll for damage - the Riptide is unhurt.

Kudos to GW for having this out on release day.

BillyBones
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#5 » Jun 17 2017 01:45

I agree with most of the stuff, but the logic of rerolls and modifiers is stupid and will greatly complicate the game.

Oh and gets hot also got nastier - for example shooting with overcharge profiles on heavy weapon after moving means that on roll of 2 you will get fried and won't get the chance to reroll.

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QimRas
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#6 » Jun 17 2017 01:55

You can almost feel the facepalming in their answer for the last question on <Regiment> and <Chapter> keywords with the same time. Its like they are dying to just say "Don't be a jerk, guys. You know exactly what we meant.".

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Maxwell
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#7 » Jun 17 2017 02:04

BillyBones wrote:Oh and gets hot also got nastier - for example shooting with overcharge profiles on heavy weapon after moving means that on roll of 2 you will get fried and won't get the chance to reroll.


Agree that is pretty rough...time for target lock.

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khayman
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#8 » Jun 17 2017 02:05

QimRas wrote:You can almost feel the facepalming in their answer for the last question on <Regiment> and <Chapter> keywords with the same time. Its like they are dying to just say "Don't be a jerk, guys. You know exactly what we meant.".


Definitely a facepalm answer. A more serious answer has already been given by GW : Replacing <Sept> with "Blood Angels" results in "Blood Angels" + "Sept" = "Blood Angels Sept". Replacing <Chapter> with "Blood Angels" results in "Blood Angels" + "Chapter" = "Blood Angels Chapter".

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nic
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#9 » Jun 17 2017 02:06

BillyBones wrote:I agree with most of the stuff, but the logic of rerolls and modifiers is stupid and will greatly complicate the game.

Oh and gets hot also got nastier - for example shooting with overcharge profiles on heavy weapon after moving means that on roll of 2 you will get fried and won't get the chance to reroll.


I think we can now see why that bonus for 3 markerlights is so worthwhile, without it I would be tempted to model my Ion Rifle pathfinders as the Crack Suicide Squad from Life of Brian.
Image

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boomwolf
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#10 » Jun 17 2017 02:16

The reroll logic is really twisted.


On the other hand, deepstrike/infiltrators/etc count against deployed model count for purposes of who gets first turn. this is pretty big.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#11 » Jun 17 2017 02:37

boomwolf wrote:The reroll logic is really twisted.


On the other hand, deepstrike/infiltrators/etc count against deployed model count for purposes of who gets first turn. this is pretty big.


Yes, but I believe this was already counted on by people. Now, having people inside a transport not counting for unit count is really interesting and up the value of Devilfishes and Tidewalls

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#12 » Jun 17 2017 03:06

The reroll is a bit odd, but I suspect most of us will adapt soon enough.

It places more limits on the benefits of a reroll, which is probably a good thing given how potent they were in previous editions.

It makes Gets Hots weapons a bit more dangerous if subject to shooting penalties (not just moving and firing Heavy weapons, but also things Stealth/Ghostkeel penalties to hit and similar abilities in other armies).

Imagine a Devastator within range of a reroll-1's aura with a Plasma Cannon moving then shooting at a Ghostkeel near Stealth Drones:

If the Devastator rolls a natural 1, then he gets to re-roll. Modifiers apply after rerolls. That means on natural rolls of 2, 3, and 4, the Devastator is slain outright, and only actually hits on a 5 or 6.

Same applies to our Ion weapons, so we should keep that well in mind.

On offense, the ability to reroll 1s with this limit is not actually affected - regardless of whether it was before or after modifiers, without the baseline rule of any result below 1 counts as 1, you can only have 1 result in 6 that is a 1. Because the reroll triggers the same amount of time regardless of pre- or post-modification (again, without that baseline rule changing <1 to 1), the benefit conferred by the rerolled 1 is the same.

It also suggests that getting an overall +1 modifier to hit means you'll never trigger the mortal wound, since only rerolls (and not other conditional rules) apply before modifiers.




I still don't think the rule makes any sense when applied to abilities allowing rerolls on "failed" rolls... which aren't determined until you check modifiers, which you can't apply before rerolls, which you can't apply before you apply modifiers, which... well, you get the idea.

BillyBones
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#13 » Jun 17 2017 03:27

Well on the other hand the gets hot is usually so punishing that it should only on roll of natural one, maybe even forbid the reroll in this case. Simply missing because the target is hard to hit will not cause an overload.

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#14 » Jun 17 2017 04:03

Vector Strike wrote:
boomwolf wrote:The reroll logic is really twisted.


On the other hand, deepstrike/infiltrators/etc count against deployed model count for purposes of who gets first turn. this is pretty big.


Yes, but I believe this was already counted on by people. Now, having people inside a transport not counting for unit count is really interesting and up the value of Devilfishes and Tidewalls


That is how I already read it in the rules anyway, its good that they clarified it any way, my main worry is how long will it take for an FAQ to out size the base rules though. :P

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boomwolf
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#15 » Jun 17 2017 04:22

thesnailmaster wrote:
Vector Strike wrote:
boomwolf wrote:The reroll logic is really twisted.


On the other hand, deepstrike/infiltrators/etc count against deployed model count for purposes of who gets first turn. this is pretty big.


Yes, but I believe this was already counted on by people. Now, having people inside a transport not counting for unit count is really interesting and up the value of Devilfishes and Tidewalls


That is how I already read it in the rules anyway, its good that they clarified it any way, my main worry is how long will it take for an FAQ to out size the base rules though. :P



Clarified?
That's hardy clear now. I'm willing to bet I'll get it wrong every game.

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Tastyfish
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#16 » Jun 18 2017 11:28

Get's hot is just as dangerous, if you were moving and firing an overcharged heavy weapon then a roll of a '1' becomes 0, which is safe. It's the '2's that get you now.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#17 » Jun 18 2017 11:50

Tastyfish wrote:Get's hot is just as dangerous, if you were moving and firing an overcharged heavy weapon then a roll of a '1' becomes 0, which is safe. It's the '2's that get you now.


Except...

Q: Can a dice roll ever be modified to less than 1?
A: No. If, after all modifiers have been applied, a dice
roll would be less than 1, count that result as a 1.

So it seems shooting our Stealthsuits... even if you have reroll 1's, if you roll natural 2, you don't get the reroll and you die. If you first roll natural 1, you get the reroll, then if you roll 1 or 2, you still die.

This changes the chances of suffering the get's hot from shooting to a -1 modifier unit with rerolls of 1s from 2.78% to 22.22%.

heksagon
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Re: Designer's Commentary - 'FAQ' for 40k 8th!

Post#18 » Jun 18 2017 04:05

Gragagrogog wrote:
Tastyfish wrote:Get's hot is just as dangerous, if you were moving and firing an overcharged heavy weapon then a roll of a '1' becomes 0, which is safe. It's the '2's that get you now.


Except...

Q: Can a dice roll ever be modified to less than 1?
A: No. If, after all modifiers have been applied, a dice
roll would be less than 1, count that result as a 1.

So it seems shooting our Stealthsuits... even if you have reroll 1's, if you roll natural 2, you don't get the reroll and you die. If you first roll natural 1, you get the reroll, then if you roll 1 or 2, you still die.

This changes the chances of suffering the get's hot from shooting to a -1 modifier unit with rerolls of 1s from 2.78% to 22.22%.


Well... I guess stealthy units will be much much more important in this edition. Aaand airplanes.

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