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 Post subject: Shield'O - Tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 03:30 
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This tactica grew out of my attempts to devise protection for my Commander in order to properly deploy the Positional Relay. I soon realised that I preferred using the Commander to preserve his bodyguard, as a Shas'O with Iridium Armour and/or Stimulant Injectors is many, many times tougher than our standard infantry.

I submit the Shieldwall tactica as a possible answer to Tau infantry's fragility in 5th edition's emphasis on Troops as scoring units. I have performed limited field testing (3 games so far) and have been very impressed with the performance of the Shield'Os in each of them. Two at once is particularly awesome.

It is in a draft form, with my notes appended. I will continue to develop this tactica through playtesting and discussion; the latest version can always be found in this post.

Cross-posted for discussion at http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=75288.0.

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The Shield'O is, in its most archetypal form, a Shas'O with Iridium Armour and a pair of shield drones. This trio can join any other team in our army (except suits with VRT and, debateably, BASS teams), bringing 3 2+ saves and some invuln to whichever part of the cadre needs them. Through manipulation of the wound allocation rules, ensure that anything your opponent fires at you will be either overkill or underkill, as the Commander and Troops protect each other.

While all armies can bolster their squads with the addition of independent characters, and toughen their characters with a bodyguard of line troopers, Tau (may be?) are unique in their characters' ability to equip drone controllers and carry other models from squad to squad with them. While ethereals can do this, and carry the further benefit of making a unit fearless, they will not be mentioned again (at least not until my next tactica ^_^ - Ethereals are the best HQ ever!).

While a Shield'O may join any unit, the most synergy seems to come from joining Fire Warriors or Kroot. Other battlesuits have their own protections, and joining Commanders to them tends to encourage more traditional Commander uses as a 'badass suit'. The sharp mixture of armour types when a Shield'O is joined to basic infantry makes for a very resilient unit, with 3 2+ saves and a large number of wounds.

There are 3 basic 'stances' the Commander may be configured for. Less than a battefield role (which we have already defined with 50 points of wargear: this is a Shield'O), a stance concerns the positioning of the Commander relative to the rest of the army, and the options kept available each turn.

The Shield'O may be dependent, independent, or interdependent on the rest of the army. It is relatively cheap to equip the Commander to perform all these stances within a single battle, but the choices made on wargear and wound allocation will vary depending on how likely or desirable you see each stance as.

The independent Shield'O is detached, not assigning his protection to any other team. It's what a Shield'O does when he's not being a Shield'O. Splitting off before an assault, or moving to another team, will be common times to assume an independent stance. The independent Shield'O behaves much like a normal monat of its type, though typically seeks to rejoin another part of the battleline, as iridium armour crimps the normal abilities of a monat suit (hiding, JSJ).

The Shield'O may also assume the independent stance temporarily (or permanently!) while attached to another team. By refusing to assign wounds to him or his drones, the attached unit assumes the more traditional bodyguard role. This is ideal for absorbing tank-busting fire, and frustrates the opponent.

Wargear characterising the independent stance is a mixture of drone types, or the deployment of multiple Commanders with the intention of moving them together. The addition of stimulant injectors may also help, though these are also ridiculously good on any Shield'O. A shield generator may also be appropriate, though as most AP 1 and 2 weapons cause Instant Death, I prefer protection that's better than 50/50.

To keep the option of assuming the independent stance, do not assign more wounds to the Commander or drones than is necessary. Once the Commander's drones are dead, or the Commander is badly wounded, he tends to become dependent on the rest of the team. The independent stance is not a role the Shield'O is really designed for, as he is not doing much shielding if he's detached, but it must be planned for, because no infantry team is guaranteed to survive the battle.

The dependent Shield'O is the steadfast Shieldwall Commander in its classic form. For maximum durability, the Shield'O has been attached to a team, and intends to stay attached. The greater good of the unit trumps other considerations when the dependent stance is taken. The commander and his drones absorb the first 3 anti-infantry shots of each volley. The drones or the attached team absorb anti-tank fire. The unit endures.

Typically, the dependent stance is taken with Troops choices assaulting or holding objectives, or in other situations where it is simply necessary that the unit survive. Large Kroot squads work well, as vast amounts of firepower must be used to overwhelm the shield wall and the 20+ wounds.

Wargear characterising the dependent stance includes the flamer and other anti-assault weapons, the shield generator, failsafe detonator and the target lock. An infantry-heavy army is also typical, as the volume of anti-infantry fire required to counter could easily be beyond the ability of your opponent.

The dependent stance is a long-term dance of playing probabilities in the enemy shooting phase, attempting to keep as many alive for as long as possible. Going to ground is a strong option for this stance, as the entire team becomes resistant to most forms of fire. With Kroot in a forest, the entire team can have 2+ saves of one sort or another.

The interdependent Shield'O acts not as a typical solo unit, or accompanied by a dedicated bodyguard, but by joining and leaving friendly squads, lending leadership, fire support, and massive armour to the otherwise fragile Tau infantry. This stance contains and counterposes the other two. The interdependent stance is about momentary advantage and local victories. The Commander's presence is used as a mobile shield wall, reinforcing mission-critical efforts and absorbing or dissuading enemy fire wherever they try to concentrate it.

The interdependent stance is often taken when the Commander has become a key target of the enemy, as he leaves a depleted bodyguard and joins another. It is also evident when escorting multiple teams to an objective - the Commander can force hard targeting decisions by leaving the protected squad and joining a decimated team: does the enemy try to wipe them out, at the cost of ignoring the now-unshielded squad, or abandon their attempt to focus fire? The interdependent stance can also be the guide for a long battle of maneuver: the Commander shifts from dependent to interdependent to independent as each situation dictates.

Wargear typical of the interdependent stance begins with the target lock. It is virtually certain that the Commander will end up mismatched with his escort's weaponry at least once. The positional relay is also common, and its wielder may call in successive waves of fresh troops, many of whom are designed specifically to take over the role of bodyguard. Having multiple units in the army equipped with shield drones is also typical of an interdependent-stance plan, as the Commander may drag anti-tank fire through multiple sets of invulnerable saves over the course of a battle.

Preserving the option of the interdependent stance is hard to pin down. As a reactive tactic, the possibilities are very specific to each situation. Keep units nearby for the Commander to duck into. Plan your Commander's movement, and maneuver your army accordingly.

longevity of the commander
- cost 7-12 points per extra wound
- great for soaking up instant death
- fire warriors can also mount shield drones
- Kroot, gone to ground in forest, give many many 2+ saves to the commander
- commander can migrate from team to team, frustrating the enemy's attempts to focus fire (do they go after the valuable commander, or the nearly-dead former bodyguard? CAN they go after the former bodyguard?). The commander can also gain access to 'fresh' shield drones by joining a new team

longevity of the infantry
- makes smaller teams survivable and viable, and makes larger teams very tough
- commander + drones acts as a 'shield wall', preventing up to 3 anti-infantry shots per volley from reaching the infantry. This penalises the shooting of smaller enemy units, as volume of fire is necessary to get 'over' the 'wall'.
- enhances firepower of team, with similar effects
- thus opens up infantry tactics at several team sizes, eg EMP warriors, mixed-armament FW teams
- iridium restricts assault move, but joining infantry eliminates it
- a commander intended for this role thus pays less for iridium armour than a commander who intends to use the assault move
- conversely, iridium becomes more valuable for a commander intending to harden infantry, as its 2+ save can be conferred on the commander's drones, further enhancing the infantry

multiple commanders
- can join each other, creating a very strong squad with up to 4 drones already
- can join separate teams, creating a hard core of infantry that the Tau army otherwise lacks
- can join the same team, creating a squad with (potentially) strong resistance to most forms of enemy fire: invulnerable saves on expendable shield drones for heavy weapons, 2+/3+ saves and multiple wounds for light weapons, and upwards of 20 wounds total for resistance to sheer volume of fire

mobility aspects
- infantry do not have an assault move, thus the Commander loses access to this move while joined
- ICs can only join and leave units in the movement phase; the assault move cannot be used to team-hop
- going to ground will restrict your commander's ability to shoot, and to leave the team
- joining an iridium commander to other jet pack infantry will harm their movement; for this reason I generally design my iridium commanders to work with infantry

firepower aspects
- utilisation of commander's ballistic skill means they will often be equipped with more high-powered weaponry than their infantry bodyguard. In such cases, a target lock is essential
- commanders can certainly be equipped to target infantry; their best weapons for doing so are 18". This works with Fire Warriors and Kroot, regardless of armament, but carbine warriors do not expose the commander to assault and are therefore probably better
- when the commander has a different preferred target to his support team, the team may fall into a more passive role of providing extra wounds and "staving off" firepower for the commander's defense. Alternatively, battlefield conditions may allow both the commander and the infantry to fully engage their preferred targets

leadership aspects
- commander and drones increase squad size and thus morale check thresholds. Up to 20 models in a FW team, or 41 (!) in a Kroot team
- commanders can join and leave the team depending on the behaviour you want from them; for example abandoning a team that is soon going to be assaulted, to try for the fall back and crossfire

drones
- have the same unit type as their controller, regardless of what sort of team they've joined. This only really matters for marker drones, but it means that marker drones on a commander who's joined a FW team can move and shoot
- marker drones: are still not really worth using in this role. They don't gain much by synergy except durability
- gun drone: costs the same as a firewarrior. Not worth taking unless you already have a full FW team. Can be comboed with cover saves to make a poor man's shield drone
- shield drone: brings more 2+/3+ saves to the infantry, and is an invulnerable save on an isolated, expendable wound. Shield drones are key to bolstering infantry's defenses. Conversely, there will be less pressure on the drones for keeping the commander alive, as the infantry can take the hit

gun drone squadron
- deserves a special mention because it's badass to give a commander (or two) something like 10 drones as a bodyguard


Last edited by Pseudomancer on Dec 02 2008 03:18, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 05:46 
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Nice write-up.
I am toying with an 'O with iridium, tl, mp, PL, fnp, 2SD as a survivability boost to my gun line.

Just remember that he can not join units with his assault move.
He can only join/leave units in the movement phase.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 06:19 
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It's a good write up. But only one person can have a special issue system per army. For instance you can only have one iridium armor per army. So yes you can have a Shield'o but only one.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 06:55 
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Yeah, I hear what you're saying. The iridium Shield'O is certainly the most effective, and so if I'm making one Shield'O, that's what I use. It can be done with stims or just a plain commander. Obviously the survivability gain isn't as great as when you have 2 drones also gaining 2+ saves, but a commander with stims is almost as tough as an iridium one. And both together? Epic.

I edited point about the assault move into my notes; I'll work it in once I figure out a whole section on joining/leaving and moving. Can anyone comment on what happens if, say, the commander is out of difficult terrain, but joined to a team that's in difficult terrain, and you want to leave? the RAW seem to say that you would have to make a difficult terrain test even as you leave the team that imposes it on you. What do you think?

So, regardless of how you answered that question, what happens if the team in question is Kroot, and they're in forest?


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 07:30 
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Since Fieldcraft is not an USR it would be lost if the unit is joined by a non-kroot.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 08:12 
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The only problem i see is your enemy deciding that your IC is goona get hit, because you can target ICs when they are in squads that are not a retinue. Of course, with all those invul saves i think he will be pretty safe. One shield drone is generally enough to stop everything that comes at me, but two plus the commander? thats just even better.

I read through the whole thing but didn't see it, but does the commander have a shield gen as well? because you don't need to have two weapons on suits from the way the codex reads. so a relay and a shield, then a weapon, would make your commander a huge boost wether hes in a squad or not.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 08:52 
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Firestorm wrote:
The only problem i see is your enemy deciding that your IC is goona get hit, because you can target ICs when they are in squads that are not a retinue.


Only in close combat. Shooting, defender assigns as normal. Page 49.

Firestorm wrote:
I read through the whole thing but didn't see it, but does the commander have a shield gen as well?


Not necessarily, but it's one of the options listed as typical planning for the dependent stance (I'm going to change those names btw; probably to elemental ones). It could be used; the "Shield'O" is more of a strategy than a build, though iridium + 2 SD is the best way to start a Shield'O list. I may make the optional nature of all the wargear clearer in future edits; any Commander adds 3 or more wounds and a tougher save to any of our Troops choices.

I've never used a shield gen on my Cmdr; shield drones are more attractive. But in my playtesting of this tactica, I guess I'll do so. It's iffy for the normal reason: because most stuff that pierces the 2+ save will cause instant death, so for 20 points you're only buying a small increase in survivability. 20 points spent on most sorts of escort will buy an equivalent or greater survival rate in most circumstances (plasma being the obvious exception).

If attempting to preserve the posrel, a shield generator could prove more worthwhile, as one extra turn's survival is often all you need to make the posrel work. Also, it's getting really expensive but I like the idea of fielding two commanders with SG rather than one - the redundancy means you get to roll the invuln more, so it's less hit and miss and more serious AP absorption. The greater number of drones makes it more likely the commander only has 1-2 wounds left when you start having to take armour piercing hits on him.


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 10:09 
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Quote:
Only in close combat. Shooting, defender assigns as normal. Page 49.


On that line though remember, they will probably try to tie up your commander in close combat because of his IC status. AP weapons aren't the only concern. more often than not i've found being prepared to slug it out is better. because there are plenty of assault units that can catch a commander. Assault marines come to mind when i think of this.

Quote:
It's iffy for the normal reason: because most stuff that pierces the 2+ save will cause instant death, so for 20 points you're only buying a small increase in survivability.


As you said with this though is that most AP 2 or 1 weapons are insta death. This is probably even more of a reason to have a SG. if a predator or a tank similar hits you with three lascannon shots, and you don't have cover or cannon fodder, well that 4+ invul is the only chance you have of surviving.
----------------
This is definetly a good idea though, and it holds a lot of merit. It gives a Pos Relay commander moer than one use. Because for the first few turns you probably don't want him to die. I really can't wait to see how well this performs over time. I might have to even playtest it myself for awhile. I think when i try it i'll have him use MP, SG, Pos Relay, HWTL, HWDC, 2 SDs.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 01:12 
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When I read this, I'm reminded of the ninja'O. Not because the first verisons had iridium and stims, but because it's a very different and counter intuitive way to use our commander, that opens up a lot of tactical flexibility. Very intersting, I might start using him to protect my Kroots, gaining 3x 2+ saves when going from cover to cover can be a life saver !
The role of the "independent shield'O" is not clear though. And as stated, very vulnerable to assault.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 05:43 
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A fine effort, Pseudomancer. Thank you for the time you've put into this. I've bookmarked it to read later when I have more time, as I'm very interested in the concepts.

E.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 01 2008 07:33 
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This parallels nicely with my own thoughts about using a positional relay commander (AFP, pos relay, shield gen, stims, 2 shield drones) for how to take my Cadre. I had been considering using staying out of LOS as protection, but the ability to shift into providing cover and protection for troop choices in the later phases of the game is definitely a tactic that I hadn't really considered. I'm not sure if I could afford to go with the full 2+ save as that takes away the JSJ mobility, but your concept is very counter-intuitive but very well thought out. Good work!

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 02 2008 03:20 
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I've made some general edits clarifying the nature of each stance. I'm thinking about removing the stances entirely, as they're not crucial to understanding the tactic. They were useful for me to organise the tactics that play off the Shield'O, but I can probably do better.

Soji wrote:
The role of the "independent shield'O" is not clear though. And as stated, very vulnerable to assault.


Yeah, it's pretty out-of-character for the tactic. The thing is, 'independence' isn't a role; it's a stance. A stance is something you don't commit to as heavily as a role; it's more like a phase you pass through in the course of a battle. In the case of independence, which I may rename the 'Air' stance, it's what your Commander does when they have to leave their team for whatever reason. As the Shield'O is all about being in a team, it's hard to talk about an independent Shield'O. He is a devilfish out of water. Still, the situation will come up; no team can be guaranteed to last all battle. So it's worth theorising and preparing for.

As a fan of The Way of the Water Warrior, I'm considering renaming my stances using the elemental scheme. Earth definitely fits the dependent stance, but I'm not sure about the others.

Also, edited Earth stance to include going-to-ground.

Firestorm, I take your points about assault, and am working on an addition to the tactica concerning assault. In short though; when the enemy approaches for assault, assess whether you can afford to commit your commander. If not, assume the Water stance by detaching out the back of the team, and move the former bodyguard to block the assault. A large enough bodyguard can prevent even jump pack troops from reaching the Commander.

Thank you all for your kind words and constructive thoughts. I am very keen to hear how the Shield'O works for all of you.


Last edited by Pseudomancer on Dec 02 2008 11:49, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 02 2008 07:28 
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A few words on playtesting.

2000 pts, vs RavenDeathAngelsWingDark

My two Commanders (one iridium, one stims) paired up and hosed some overexposed Deathwing Termies off a central objective. Meanwhile an FW team was reduced and withdrew from my left flank objective. Commanders moved to join it, then repositioned back onto the objective. Dissuaded any further firing at the 5 remaining FWs until end of game.

Conclusion: the shield wall is intimidating, and gets more so the later in the game it is. Especially with two commanders. Lower enemy volume of fire makes the shield wall nigh-invulnerable, and in such circumstances the enemy may choose to ignore the shielded team.

1000 pts, vs Guard

My iridium Shield'O flanked through forest with a 20-strong squad of Kroot, towards the enemy mortars. I messed up my wound allocation a few times (sleepy) and lost more Kroot than I had to, failing a morale check the turn before I charged. Outflankers kept me broken til I ran off the table.

Conclusion: just bad luck it didn't work. 1/12 chance of failing that test. Bad concentration certainly played a part, because if I'd actually run the shield wall properly, I wouldn't have had to make a test at all. The shield wall still seems strong, and enabled me to make a long, aggressive charge on a heavy firebase, taking minimal casualties. This is not a tactic commonly available to Tau, and while it is only really strong vs GEq, bears further investigation. The potential of the Shield'O to allow unorthodox use of units like this is part of what interests me. Kroot with Ld 10? Yes please! Next time I'll bring 12 Hounds as well. Break that!

It was also interesting to see how such an aggressive tactic drew fire. The shield wall can absorb so much fire, that the enemy may be inclined to avoid it (as in the previous game). Moving Kroot aggressively forces a tough decision on your opponent, and means that the charge is likely to either succeed, or draw so much fire off the rest of your army that it is as if the Commander stands steadfast between the Tau and the entire enemy army.

If I had had a few more points to work with, the commander would have deployed more centrally, letting the Kroot flank while positioning himself to detach before the charge, and join my other flank or my home objective defence.

So far, so good. Moving the commander within the team is important, as his options for leaving and rejoining are shaped by that 6" of movement each turn.


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 02 2008 08:38 
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Excellent Tactica Pseudomancer. I have been running this build for months now and I love it. I usually equip him like so:

Shas'El
TL MP's
Pos Relay
HW Target Lock
Bonding Knife
HW Drone Controller
2x Shield Drones
Iridium Armor

My most frequent opponent plays my shooty Tyranid list and I find my infantry hit with multiple Barbed Strangler hits from Warriors and Fex's. This can at times negate the use of the Sheild'O (Great name by the way!), by forcing your infantry to make the save anyway. Still having him and his drones there to soak up fire can really allow the unit to survive all but the most concentrated enemy fire.

I field a very Auxiliary heavy list and I have found the Shield'O shines when he attaches to my large Shooty Kroot squad. The squad contains 12 Kroot, 1 Shaper w/Pulse Rifle and 2 Krootox. That gives me 4 extra wounds (2 on the Shaper, 2 on one of the Krootox) before I have to start removing any models and that is without using the Shield'O. I usually start with him attached to this squad and I plop them in cover and let them become a really obnoxious firebase. Although, I like to be careful about what hits I assign to my Shield Drones. Taking 2 Bolter shots can be saved, but they can also fail their save and you can lose 2 great models to a tiny Bolter. Sometimes the protected unit can take one for the team and save the minor stuff while you prepare for the bigger shots that will no doubt come your way. Basically, use caution not to waste your resources.

I find that most opponents who can't shoot something to death with send in some assault oriented unit to finish the job. I can't tell you how many times I have had Outflanking Genestealers come charging into my lines! So I had begun to think of a way to negate my enemy’s tactic. This is mainly why I choose the Kroot squad as opposed to Firewarriors. The Kroot are actually a lot better in combat then many give them credit for. And putting them in cover means that the enemy may have to roll for difficult terrain before assaulting which allows you to get the jump on them. This can also turn people off from the thought of assaulting this unit.

I find that making it a juicy target, then annoying the crap out of them by making it really survivable will often be enough to make your opponent pull their hair out. This allows you to have control of the game though. Your opponent may get frustrated and devote a huge amount of fire toward the Sheild'O. This allows the rest of your army a chance to hit them when their not looking.

I favor using Vespid with this tactic. Yes, I know most people think they are a waste, but when used properly they shine. AP3 weapons tend to make people think twice and more often then not, the attacker is caught by the Stingwings who wait in cover or deepstrike just as they approach my lines. I find that shooting with the Vespid, and then assaulting is the best option. The Vespid initiative 5 allows them to get the first hit and hopefully weaken or destroy the enemy (hopefully!). But then the T4 of the vespid is put to good use once the enemy gets a chance to hit back. Ld 9 can help to keep them in the fight and if the have to flee, Initiative 5 helps. I know this isn't a Vespid tactica, but I have found the Shield'O epitomizes the Tau doctrine: Every unit working together for The Greater Good.

I have recently tried experimenting with a new load out, replacing the TL Missile Pod with a regular Missile Pod and a Flamer. I am hoping that this will make people think twice about assaulting and at least give the unit a chance to take some units out before they get a chance to assault. I will hopefully get a game in tonight or tomorrow, so we'll see how it works.

Anyways, great tactica and I look forward to more discussion!

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 02 2008 12:25 
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An excellent job, Pseudomancer. A few comments/questions:
- Is it necessary he be an 'o, i.e. why not take an 'el with a targeting array?
- You are aware that Feel No Pain is negated by AP1/AP2 weaponry? The Stimulant Injector is still awesome, but won't make the 'o proper capable of soaking up instant death wounds; you'll have to rely on the drones for that.
- As pointed out by another poster, the Commander would not benefit from the Kroot's possible 2+ cover save.
- Independent characters that join together form a unit of independent characters, meaning that they could not both join the same team, as you mention under the "multiple commanders" heading.
- Excellent point about the targeting array.
- Just a criticism of style, but I feel the independent/dependent/interdependent dichotomies were a bit forced. That being said, you articulated extremely well a point I immediately recognize as correct, but had never well articulated myself - that is, that our commanders should be "interdependent", willing to join or leave other units necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 02 2008 08:55 
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Hi Elliott, and thanks for your effort. I am broadly in agreement with all your points.

Elliott wrote:
- Is it necessary he be an 'o, i.e. why not take an 'el with a targeting array?


It's not necessary, no. I'm simply following the naming convention established by Ninja'O and the like.

That said, the 'O is much superior in this role, even more than they usually are. Their leadership extends to many models, and Ld 10 is failed half as much as Ld 9 (just like 2+ and 3+ saves...). The extra wound is obviously also suited to the role. The assault capabilities also fit, because this is a much slower commander than is typical. In fact, if I were so concerned about points as to take a Shield'El, I would very likely not take a targeting array, as I have to be on a tight budget to not want a full Shield'O.

Elliott wrote:
- You are aware that Feel No Pain is negated by AP1/AP2 weaponry? The Stimulant Injector is still awesome, but won't make the 'o proper capable of soaking up instant death wounds; you'll have to rely on the drones for that.


I usually field the stims on a separate commander, because I don't like having two abilities with the same vulnerability on one guy. Especially when so many AP 1-2 guns will gib him, and I don't like the cost of the shield gen. On the Shield'O, however, you can afford to stack them, because he not only has drones to absorb big hits, but also infantry. Both upgrades do the same job: they double his survivability vs anti-light infantry fire (the Shield'O's job) and they stack.

In fact, they have such similar functions and vulnerabilities that I find myself wondering what we're paying for with iridium. Is the 10 points and JSJ nerf the price of being able to extend the effect to drones?

Elliott wrote:
- As pointed out by another poster, the Commander would not benefit from the Kroot's possible 2+ cover save.


That's ok, he brought his own! "The entire team can have 2+ saves of one sort or another."

Elliott wrote:
- Independent characters that join together form a unit of independent characters, meaning that they could not both join the same team, as you mention under the "multiple commanders" heading.


Ah, but they can both join the same third party. The rules for joining and leaving units makes it completely unproblematic to simultaneously split the commanders and join the third party by moving them one at a time into the unit.

Elliott wrote:
- Just a criticism of style, but I feel the independent/dependent/interdependent dichotomies were a bit forced. That being said, you articulated extremely well a point I immediately recognize as correct, but had never well articulated myself - that is, that our commanders should be "interdependent", willing to join or leave other units necessary.


Oh, absolutely. My notes for this sat in a folder for a week before I figured out even that artificial and forced way of organising them. I don't know what I'm going to do about it; maybe just present them as ways of imagining how a Shield'O acts in different circumstances. That's what they really are, but I needed labels to discuss them.

It is important to remember that in reality the stances are not a dichotomy (or trichotomy, for that matter). I'm not suggesting you are unaware of this; rather my draft tactica has such a wooden style that I don't feel I've adequately expressed the actual use of a Shield'O.

It is possible to alternate between them with every single action taken - assigning light weapons fire to the shield wall and lascannon hits to the infantry, for example, has a hint of the independent stance, while also potentially being the best option for long-term preservation of the unit. They are more an attitude (more of a guideline, really), a couple of basic concepts that organise the options available to the Shield'O at any given time. If you wish to maintain the Commander's independence, for example, there are things you should do. If you would prefer to lose as few models as possible to every attack, the Commander will probably start losing drones. And if you find yourself switching from one goal to another based on the situation and the remaining squad (and nearby army) members, well that's great.

As for your view on the preferred stance, I feel the same way. I look at the final stance as what is achieved when the first two are practiced fluidly and with a broad mindfulness of the whole battle. The Shield'O, I think, has potential to shape the enemy's actions and their impact on the Tau army on a large scale, and the ability to control that impact requires opportunism ^_^

I am particularly interested in the late-game effects of a Shield'O who retains several wounds and at least one drone. For obvious reasons, this situation can't reliably be set up in a real game, but if you shepherd your resources well, the Shield'O is tough enough to see it reasonably often. You need to see it; 2 Shield'Os attached to a half-dozen infantry, in the late game when your opponent has no more volume of fire. Priceless.


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 02 2008 10:43 
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I think the Shield'O could also be useful for saving a troubled Ethereal. Having just read the tactica of Bait and Switch with the Ethereal might have helped formulate this idea.

Having the Shield'O pop into the Ethereals unit would certainly toughen it up. If you had the honour guard for the Ethereal combined with the Shield'O you would have quite a powerful unit. Later on if your opponent has given up or not taken the bait of pouring fire into it have your Shield'O split off and join something else. I do realise you are doubling up on the Ld bonus by having them together though which is a slight waste of the points on the abilities of both HQs.

I would be interested in hearing some people play test with these idea combined.

-Strobe


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 03 2008 06:42 
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More playtesting - 2 Shas'El, iridium, stims. I tried deploying the Commanders separately this time. Once again, I rolled 11s and 12s for Ld tests. Next test I do involves an Ethereal :(

Turns out the 2+ save is pretty crucial to being a Shield'O. The guy with stims came under krak missile and Earthshaker fire, and couldn't really deal with it. On a side note, stims, shield drones, and 5 gun drones are cool.

So the whole sharp mixture of armour types is crucial to the effectiveness of a Shield'O. The whole dynamic is about playing that underkill/overkill game with your enemy, massively reducing the effectiveness of their fire. A 2+ save and some shield drones means you have all possible bases covered; a 3+ save leaves you more vulnerable and is not worth calling a Shield'O. Further testing of this point will be done, but it seems solid. The fact that my opponent ignored my iridium commander and shot my stims commander says something about the relative effectiveness.

The stim'O can still contribute to the shield wall, however. Deploying him away from the Shield'O makes him unable to perform a really effective shield wall, but deploying him with the Shield'O allows more synergy - you have a 'higher' wall and a greater variety of options in wound allocation. The stim'O's drones, for example, are less valuable than the Shield'O's, which allows more soaking of AP hits.

Well the game is still in progress and I'm too sleepy to draw any further conclusions or formulate further tests. Night all =)


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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 03 2008 05:24 
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As you've seen the crucial difference between the Iridium and stims is the AP3 thing. Also S8 (because of insta kill, obviously). Anything that ignores a 2+ save will make short work of a 3+ w/FNP, but that doesn't work both ways.

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 Post subject: Re: Shield'O - tactica of the Commander Shieldwall
PostPosted: Dec 08 2008 01:54 
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Further playtesting:

Shield'O on BASS team is an absolutely superb spearhead unit. These monsters hung back and sniped the enemy tanks, then stomped down midfield to start hosing the enemy infantry with SMS. Carrying a flamer and target lock is strong on any Shield'O, because of its defensive/surprise! offense! nature.

Meanwhile my Stim'O and accompanying gun drone squadron (think of it as a light, fast Shield'O) leapt around mopping up remnants and getting in close to flame.

Shield'O in combination with pinning technology is really strong; cutting down on that volume of fire multiplies your survivability.

It occurs to me that the use of gun drones in normal Crisis teams has elements of the shield wall in it - not as strong as putting some 2+ saves in among Kroot, but the multiple wounds of the Crisis and the comparatively low value of the gun drones allows a less powerful form of wound manipulation.


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