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Shas'Ui
- Militant.Jester
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Post subject: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Sep 21 2009 12:15 |
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Joined: Jan 18 2009 10:48 Location: Tri-Cities Washington, USA Native English speaker?: Yes
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Hey all. After winning two games in a row after over 50+ defeats to my friend's Necron scum, I took a step back and looked at what I did differently. What I came to realize is that I played much more aggressively than I normally do.
Normally I basically establish a firebase in one corner and shoot at him until he gets close, and then he rapid-fires/assaults me to death. But in these last two instances, I loaded up my fire warriors into Devilfish (as opposed to forming a gunline with them) and moved my ragtag collection of Hammerheads (3!) Devilfish, and Crisis suits into a mobile fortress. They moved forward into range where I could fire the Hammerhead secondary systems (burst cannons), Devilfish weapons, and Rapid Fire plasma rifles on Crisis suits. In one game I dismounted Fire Warriors to help out, and in the other I assaulted the survivors with Kroot.
Now why not just wait until he got right up to my corner to do all that? There are two reasons. First of all, once I fired, I could move backwards the next turn, as opposed to being backed into a corner. This allowed me to repeat the process. Second of all, it allowed me room to maneuver and not get stuck in that accursed corner.
Now obviously you shouldn't move with units such as SDT - only move with units that can be more effective up close. IE, the ability to rapidfire or some weapons that have less range than others.
I know this information undoubtedly seems obvious to more skilled Tau players, but I just wanted to get some advice/share my experience. Q&C&Advice Appreciated.
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Shas'Ui
- Das Boogie Man
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Sep 21 2009 03:08 |
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Joined: Sep 03 2007 05:22 Location: Perth, Western Australia
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I've noticed that is the very essence of Mechanized Tau, unlike Static Tau, we have the option of shooting then running away to repeat. This tactic works very very well against most opponents but is particularly effective against slow (Necrons Mentioned) or Elite armies (which cannot cover a lot of ground giving a much greater freedom of movement). However, the aggressive approach doesn't work so well against armies with an equal aggressive capability (e.g. Mech Eldar, Dark Eldar) or massive amounts of Firepower which span the whole board (e.g. Gunline IG). Therefore, the aggressive approach must be tailored towards more guerilla type tactics where we place maximum pressure at a few key locations. I guess the best lesson you have stumbled upon is that aggressive Mech armies have greater flexibility which comes with the mobility, allowing you to rapidly adapt to your opponent's tactics. Kudos to your win after the losing streak!!!
_________________ Nothing Like the sound of Railguns in the Morning
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Shas'Ui
- Sholto
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Sep 21 2009 08:08 |
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Joined: Feb 29 2008 08:34 Location: UK Native English speaker?: Yes
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With the risk of mechanised forces (they were in the majority at a competition in Scotland just a couple of weeks ago), gunline Tau are arguably in a better position than they have ever been. Not many mechanised forces can take 9 railguns and 9 missile pods per Turn. One Turn with some lucky rolls and it might be game over.
That said, I find static Tau to be very dull to play. I like to move around and, when occasion warrants, press an attack and it sounds like you have started to think in the same direction. As DBM says, mech Tau have an above-average freedom of movement, letting us bring our firepower to bear on key parts of the enemy's forces without too much difficulty, or to get our core damage-dealers out of harm's way.
Sholto
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Shas'Ui
- Militant.Jester
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Sep 21 2009 06:02 |
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Joined: Jan 18 2009 10:48 Location: Tri-Cities Washington, USA Native English speaker?: Yes
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Das Boogie Man wrote: Kudos to your win after the losing streak!!! Thanks! I have only fought one game against Imperial Guard, and none against Eldar, Dark Eldar, or any mechanized forces, so...yeah... Something you both touched upon, and I forgot to mention, is that when fielding a more aggressive Tau army, you have much more freedom. When gun-lining it, you basically shoot each turn. Not fun, and the enemy will know what's coming. But with mobile, aggressive Tau, you can do unexpected things, that make the game more fun and make killing you harder for your opponent.
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Shas'La
- wiele
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Sep 26 2009 02:11 |
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Joined: Aug 02 2008 05:25 Location: belgium Native English speaker?: No
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I play mech tau for some time now. It's the only way for the tau these days I think. the devilfish gives a good protection against most firepower since vehicles get a better chance to survive in 5th edition.
but what I also experience the fact that it's not all that easy to maneuvre on a battlefield, especially when horde armies are on the loose, running towards your lines. many of us, if not all of us, have the disruption pod on their skimmers to survive enemy fire. but with horde armies, you clearly can't stay away 12" that easy. and we get prone to close assault against our vehicles, which is not a very good option if you face power fist opponents or rending attacks (like genestealers with a whole lot of attacks!).
attacking key positions is the way to go indeed. or try to open up the battlefield in a way of speaking. I try to go on both flanks, so he has to split up, then isolate the enemy by deepstriking suits and block his escape routes. not always that easy but worth the try.
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Shas'La
- Aranarth
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Sep 30 2009 12:45 |
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Joined: Mar 23 2008 06:25 Location: Iowa, United States
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Militant.Jester wrote: I know this information undoubtedly seems obvious to more skilled Tau players, but I just wanted to get some advice/share my experience. Q&C&Advice Appreciated. It's nothing personal at all, but I am often distressed by how many fellow Tau commanders haven't learned the lesson you've learned. The Tau army has much more power in it than many people think -- the idea that the Tau are most able to damage their opponent by standing and delivering as far away from their enemies as possible is a total myth that needs to be busted once and for all. The Tau can create incredibly powerful and flexible TAC lists with a wealth of options that can be effective against almost any opponent. I've often considered making a submission to the Academy outlining my particular philosophy of proper Tau tactics/army selection but basically haven't because I'm lazy (and busy of course). However what I've read on ATT has convinced me that a lot of people would stand to benefit from a shift in their perspective of the Tau way of war. It's a little more complicated than simply "taking the fight to them" (the exact phrase used on the GW site if I remember correctly). It's not simply "Kauyon" vs. "Mont'ka" or "static" vs. "mobile." Put succinctly, making sure that whatever army you use has the flexibility to use whatever tactical tool is optimal for the situation you as a commander are presented with. Yeesh you've really got me going now, I might have to write my Tactica...
_________________ "Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
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Shas'La
- Creeping Dementia
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Nov 03 2009 09:58 |
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Joined: Oct 06 2007 09:01 Location: United States Native English speaker?: Yes
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Well Jester, I'm personally thrilled that you've discovered your new playstyle. By your description, I'm doing extremely similar tactics, but with some slight differences. I run full Mech (4 fish, 2 Railheads, 6 fusion Piranha, 5 suits, 2000pts) and many of my games develop with most of my army in a flotilla formation (your "mobile fortress", tanks on the outside, suits inside). Like you I've noticed the great protection from this, and also the decent amount of firepower it can put out with the Tanks and JSJ suits. In my area though I've sort of been messing with people a lot by being extremely aggressive in my playstyle, which is unusual for Tau. Often, rather than backing up the flotilla to gain extra rounds of shooting, I Tank Shock the hell out of my opponent.
Mass Tank Shocks really have one purpose for me, just to cause lots of leadership tests (and I guess to get opponents to back off and scatter squads). Getting squads to bolt before I even start shooting is an awesome and gamechanging ability. Naturally this isn't applicable to fearless units, MCs (well, sometimes it applies), and squads with meltas, but against everything else it's great. Death or Glory isn't nearly as much of a threat as it seems either, Powerfists don't have nearly as great a chance of stopping a tank as some players assume, and more often than not the sergeant gets squished (most players opt to just get out of the way though). In a recent game I had a D-Fish Tank Shock a Carnifex that still had a few wounds left (controlled by a slightly overconfident Nid player) and he DoGed the Fish... my devilfish lost it's burst cannon but the Fex got flattened. That was a bit of a risk, but in retrospect it won me the game. In another game against some aggressive Blood Angels (lots of jump packs) I got off 10 Shocks in the course of 2 turns which routed 2 assault squads and isolated Dante w/ buddys and the Death Company squad, which were promptly wiped out with Helios HQ suits and Fusion Piranha. The game was then conceded. There are other examples but the point is that a somewhat overly aggressive playstyle can really throw some opponents off guard and ruin gameplans. I think much of its success is due to the fact that a lot of people just don't even think about the possibility of multiple Tank Shocks, and it isn't worked into their mind as a prominent tactic. Just don't tank shock Meltas, that often ends badly.
I think I started this because I recently started a Mech Sisters army, and the aggressive use of Rhinos is a big key to using them well. And I figured, Tank Shocking is so hugely successful with my Sisters, why not with my Tau. Also Tau have Flechettes, which makes the aggressive flotilla and even more successful than it would be otherwise, because now your opponent is being run over by tanks that he is more cautious to assault.
Of course, this isn't a tactic that will always be used, but it really gives you options. If your opponent wants to stay back, thats fine, our Disruption Pods will help us to outlast them and Rails/missile pods/pulse fire can punish them from far away, while Fusion piranha go hunting. If your opponent wants to rush you, then you always have the option of running his units over and playing a closer game, ideal for Helios and those flamers on Deathrains, using both skimmers and their gun drones to block assaults. A simple change in mindset makes us less vulnerable to the 'close range' gameplay that many of us struggle with.
So give that a try, I'd love to know if other people have as much success with Tank Shock spam as I currently am.
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Shas'Ui
- Militant.Jester
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Nov 06 2009 12:12 |
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Joined: Jan 18 2009 10:48 Location: Tri-Cities Washington, USA Native English speaker?: Yes
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@Aranarth I would love to see such a tactica! I'm sure you could express it much more eloquently than I. And you bring up a good point, that I had only skirted around - flexibility is key; long range support, ambush elements, crisis suits, pathfinders, all intertwine perfectly to destroy then enemies of Tau.
@Creeping Dementia: Woah! Such a long post and all about tank shocking. I admit I really only thought of it as a gimmicky thing before, useful for a couple laughs only. But I think I might need to try it out in my next game. Thinking about it, it would be quite useful if I could tank shock some Warriors towards my kroot...
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Shas'Ui
- O'Shaska
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Post subject: Re: Taking the Fight to Them Posted: Mar 16 2010 03:32 |
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Joined: Mar 31 2009 10:10 Location: u.s. Native English speaker?: Yes
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After failing at gunline Tau for almost a year and a half, I can't agree more with the mech-tau theory, especially with the rise of outflanking units. The extra Gun Drones that come with it are great for area denial and harassment as well, found out from experience against a Blood Angels player yesterday. By turn three, his Jump infantry couldn't get anywhere near my 'fish because they'd land within one inch of the Gun Drones. The little buggers saved my Helios team from a jump-pack assault thanks to area denial on top of that  Edit: Forgive the threadomancy, just felt compelled to throw my two cents in.
_________________ Let none who are wise deny our destiny.
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