I was having a discussion with an employee of my LGS, and said discussion turned towards this year's Cities of Death tournament. During the conversation, it was mentioned that this time around would be very different, as the expansion has been out for some time, and most people have played a few games with it.

Eventually, it turned to examining some of the stratagems, and what a mostly mechanized list could really benefit from. Now, my list only has two models that can't move at least 12", those being my XV88's. Having played Dawn of War fairly extensively, and being someone who gets immense satisfaction of dropping XV88's from a cloaked Devilfish inside someone's base, I wondered how someone could do that in the tabletop game, and it hit me: use the sewer rats stratagem to deploy broadsides right in the middle of the enemy formation!

Currently, my HS section is a typical BASS unit.



Now, to make this a viable tactic, should I switch it up to something like this?



Or would this even be a viable tactic?

Here's the list, with the first configuration. If I'm going to use the second, I'll have to drop the shield drones from the XV8 Teams:



Obviously, the list is designed with near-maximum maneuverability in mind, able to run rings around pretty much anyone but Eldar and Dark Eldar, and the punch to back it up. The 1850 version of this list fared extremely well in a terrain-heavy environment, and the CoD tables in the tournament are guaranteed to be Gamma-level tables, so a minimum of five buildings will be present.

The XV88's are there as a sort of Kauyon bait. They are placed far enough back that they are out of any sort of assault in the first two turns, but far enough forward to be an instant target once their capabilities are actually experienced.

I won't have a chance to playtest this until the end of this coming week, but I'd really like initial thoughts and speculation on how this might work, or not work. Even for playtesting, I'd like to go in with my eyes at least a little open, and some ideas for how to pull it off.

The list of opponents runs the spectrum of available armies. It leans heavily towards the MEQ side of the scale, although it is not unheard of for a horde of Tyranids to show up.

Thanks for reading,
Mont'yr

well, if your going to be playing a lot of MEQ armies, then having your broadsides pop up from below right in their formation wouldnt be the best idea. Allthough popping up behind enemy vehicles near the rear of your oppenents lines could be a good idea. Focus on all the fire support vehicles first, then once those are taken out, you'll be shooting the enemy from both sides. THen, maby your oppennt would detach some squads to take care of the broad sides, which will allow your infantry squads to move in and take the objective.

Of course, you've proably got all that figured out.

The main gist of the idea is to have some some very scary guns pop up behind enemy lines. With my Piranhas engaging vehicles on the second or third turn, my opponent is going to be very worried about stopping them. My hope is to distract him from the sewer openings, and when the broadsides pop up, they come out in an advantageous position. This could be to put a scoring unit suddenly in their deployment zone, or even better, in one of their buildings.

The CoD book is very specific. The unit enters play as if by board edge, but they can not assault. Since my broadsides have no assault move, there's nothing to worry about. They can still move and shoot, which is the purpose of having the ASS system on them anyway.

Hey, Mont'yr.

You have a cool idea, sounds like something I would do (I like deepstriking my 'el and BG behind enemy lines) but i've noticed something. If you are popping up within/behind enemy lines would'nt it be better to take TA's instead of ASS making them even better bait?

I like your idea because it is similiar to one of my own, that is deepstrike an el' and his BG behind enemy lines with 3 BC's and AFP,CIB and a PR to draw tons of fire. If they do take the bait it would be cutting out a part of their forward momentum.

Looking forward to how this turns out.

Imran

If they have TA's, they won't be able to move and shoot for a turn. Plus, both of their weapons are twin-linked, meaning that I effectively have two plasma rifles with TA's already, and only for 10 points.

There was also some debate as to whether or not XV8 suits could use the sewer entrance method, as it says "Jump Infantry" in their title. However, I'm not entirely sure I want to push an already (possible) controversial idea any further, as the CoD book states "Infantry" may use the sewer entrances.

Shas'O Mont'yr, what are you doing out here? Get back in your hole now darn it!! [/end Inside joke here]

I like this idea greatly. It seems very viable to me though you do bring up a concern with XV8's being listed as jump infantry. I am without my codex currently but from memory I don't believe that XV88's are classified as such and ARE classified as 'infantry'. I'll double check up on that but it sounds legal.

I do like that you have given them plasma for the extra punch but wouldn't SMS be more effective in the heavily populated terrain you are expecting to encounter? Just saying this might be something to think about.

This topic brought a distinct memory from the back recesses of my brain. Anyone remember Gears of War, when the big honking boomers appeared from underground when you were defending the one platform. Darn which chapter was that?? You may know the one, where you can shoot a pipe and flood the three boomers with fire. Man my memory is getting worse by the year. Anyone? Oh well perhaps it was just me who thought of that similarity.

Eh, I'll get back to my fluff writing now ;-)

Ah, I see. I guess the A.S.S is compulsary seeing as it is CoD. falconkline does bring up a good point, the SMS would be able to fire without LOS making them even deadlier in my opinion then Plasma Rifles in CoD,. Being shot at by a 4 shot weapon that doesnt need line of sight is pretty scary.

I have a codex next to me that informs me that you Sir are quite correct - XV88 Broadsides are indeed listed as 'Infantry'.

Now, I don't know much about the scenario you are talking about, but if both sets of rules specifically mention Infantry then I see no problem with the idea.

Edit: Upon further reading I see the OP was refering to XV8s which are listed as 'Jump Infantry' (no way to deny that - especially on this forum ). So I'm unable to help clarify on that matter.

You mentioned that if they enter via the sewers they don't get an assult move - would this not remove part of the attraction of the XV8s in that you can JSJ ? Or is the restriction on assault movement only in place on the first turn (or the turn they enter the field of play)?

Woot! Some discussion, finally!



Again, the CoD codex is very specific. It says "...they may not initiate an assault." But it doesn't say they don't get their assault move.

How would you play that, though? I know if I was able to have XV8's popping out of the ground, I'd be less concerned with getting them into assault than getting them into a building for something such as contesting key buildings.

Side question: if you're in the same cover as an enemy unit, but shoot at it, do they get the cover save?

I'm not entirely sure - there's a similar rule when assaulting enemies in cover - they get a cover save on your first turn of assaulting them, however, on the second it is assumed with the meleé sprawls over into the cover and neither side gets one.

Without having looked it up (I'm not sure that eventuality is covered in my rule book - I don't remember seeing it when I read through), I would assume it was something similar. On the other hand, since the combat is ranged and so enemies can still hide behind things/duck (if they were lucky).

I would probably play no cover save in a friendly game (not worth the trouble of working it out) but in a tournament or a serious, competitive game I would probably play it with the cover save. If given the choice anyways.

I don't know how much help that is, sorry.

Well, let's assume that the XV8's can't use it, as this is dedicated to using XV88's in a most unusual manner.

Which configuration would you use? As I see it, there are three possibilites:

1. One unit of XV88's with two shield drones. Biggest unit, could be problematical trying to get majority in cover.



2. Two units of XV88's, each with a single shield drone and plasma rifles, so you don't have to worry about taking bonding knives. However, man alone tests are going to be a pain if that drone dies. Plasma gives you extra punch against any light vehicles/dreadnoughts your opponent has in the area.



3. Two units of XV88's, each with a single shield drone and SMS. Man alone tests are still a pain, but you can anything in range, LoS or not.



Which unit would you take, and why?

XV8s aside, if you still intend to use the XV88s as a Kauyon bait/lure, then I would probably go for the single unit as its fewer points to lose overall if the trap doesn't spring correctly.

However, it you want to use them offensively then I would probably go for the SMS. If I’m correct in assuming these Broadsides will be popping up behind the vehicles then you'll catch their rear armour and should tear some major holes in them pretty fast - meaning if you're taking hammerheads they'll be caught between two sets of rail guns. At that point, the centre of map becomes a vehicle kill zone (as long as you have LoS).

I would, as I understand it, be able to send in Fire Warriors with the Broadsides and would do just that, arming the XV88s with the SMS due to the lack of LoS required to fire them (which in a terrain heavy map should be quite the advantage). Plus they are cheaper with the SMS system, and while it might be only saving a few points, it's enough for another two fire warriors or to upgrade the XV88 TmLdrs to Shas'Vres which might be useful if the broadsides do find themselves in a building with hostile infantry (what with the improvements to their stat line behing centered on sats to do with CC).

I've never fielded a XV88 team before, let alone in a City style environment so I'm not the best person to ask, but I would go with



because the SMS is Heavy 4 (though it can still be fired on the move with the same range as a plasma rifle as you have ASS, but doesn't require troops to be dangerously close to be very effective) so you have a good volume of fire, the ability to fire round corners and keep the enemy at arms length.

The only trouble might lie with heavily armoured infantry, but as I see it the XV88 is best with the SMS, especially if it has deep striked XV8 or FW backup.

it's an interesting idea, certainly worth discussing.

The image I have of using Sewer Rats is to engage in CQB and I am not sure about putting the Broadsides into that although it might be the only way to get them into a good firing position in the confines of city fight.

It does, however, take away their fantastic ability to define no-tank fire lanes from Turn 1.

Sorry that I can't add anything further...

This was a concept I toyed with when CoD first came out.

My concept though wasn't neccessarily to come in behind the enemy formation but to get my suits into the best firing positions within the city as fast as possible. Hence I think I was planning on running Sniper'88s with TA's and SD's etc. Infiltrate and Hold style, rather than fighting retreat with ASS.

Also important to the concept was taking a number of Kroot squads. These work to:

a) Protect your entry points from having enemy infiltrators deployed over them. (big problem with Sewer rats strategem)

And b) Offer CC cover once the 88's are in place.

Sadly this is all thoeryhammer as I have never managed to organise a game of CoD but I think the theory should be pretty firm. Thankfully that may be changing soon so if I do get a chance to put my ideas into practice I will be sure to share.

So, I went back and re-read the last post I had in here, and realized it sounded kinda pompous and asinine. My apologies for that. It did sound like I was a bit of an Advanced Stabilization System.

So, here's a (hopefully) better reply in the event we can get discussion running again.

@ Discount Ninja: Your reasons are all valid. The thing is, though, there is only going to be four to six buildings on the table. Since this is a Gamma-level game, there is a limit on the number of buildings you can have on the table. There is a better than 60% possibility of having perfect line of sight to whatever I need to shoot when my XV88's come out of the sewers. The thing to remember, though is that I'm not taking Hammerheads. My other anti-tank falls to my two squadrons of Piranhas. Thankfully, I'll have a chance to test-play both the plasma and SMS configurations this Friday.

@ kai'lore: The thing about the Sewer Rats stratagem is that you can't launch an assault. With such a low building count, even if I only roll four sewer entrances, that's four holes the enemy will be forced to counter. That's four units that will not be participating in the battle as much as they could otherwise. The Broadsides have the armor and toughness to stand up to anything short of an Independent Character for at least a round or two, taking that much more fire away from the rest of my army. The nice thing about here in Alaska is that even if I only take four skimmers, I have the most armor on the table. The vast majority of the armies up here are infantry heavy, and the odds of me encountering a serious vehicle threat are quite low. As for the "image" of sewer rats, you can just imagine they've been pre-positioned, and are under heavy camouflage, just waiting for the word to deploy.

@ O'Mont'sha: In all likelyhood, if I am the only one between me and my opponent who take sewer rats, all of the entrances will be in the vicinity of their deployment zone. I don't play with Kroot, and my Fire Warriors are all mech'd up, so the Broadsides will have to come out with a massive amount of firepower hitting the bad guys from another angle. Like I told kai, I'm not terribly worried about the XV88's running into a heavy CC unit way back in the backfield.

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So, again, my apologies if I stepped on anyone's toes. I hope I haven't lost too many respect points.

Removed and reposted to up to date thread :-)