Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
DVeight
Shas'La
Posts: 51

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#11 » Jun 16 2017 08:57

Reading the sniper drones and marksman now against that core rule. Well the sniper drones just got better. Have two marksmen near a unit and they will benefit from both marksmans abilities as modifiers are cumulative in line with the core rule.

We should all feel little better about our T'au.

Ted the Tau
Shas'La
Posts: 50

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#12 » Jun 16 2017 09:06

It's the same deal with the Firesight marksman. You'll only ever get +1 to hit because an enemy unit can only ever be visible or not visible to a friendly FM. It's a yes or no condition, there is no numerical factor involved here (the same is true for the drone controller rule btw.)

The section about modifiers being cumulative is about multiple modifiers appyling to the same stat/roll, not every ability being stackable.

Marksman Drones get +1 to hit from friendly drone controllers within 6", +1 from the FM Drone Uplink ability and +1 to hit from 5 Markerlights. Those three modifiers are cumulative, so you get a maximum of +3 to hit if you can get them all at the same time.

Maxwell
Shas'Saal
Posts: 22

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#13 » Jun 16 2017 09:13

Ted the Tau wrote:It's the same deal with the Firesight marksman. You'll only ever get +1 to hit because an enemy unit can only ever be visible or not visible to a friendly FM. It's a yes or no condition, there is no numerical factor involved here (the same is true for the drone controller rule btw.)

The section about modifiers being cumulative is about multiple modifiers appyling to the same stat/roll, not every ability being stackable.

Marksman Drones get +1 to hit from friendly drone controllers within 6", +1 from the FM Drone Uplink ability and +1 to hit from 5 Markerlights. Those three modifiers are cumulative, so you get a maximum of +3 to hit if you can get them all at the same time.


This. You want to say it (drone controller) should be cumulative? Ok. You want to say GW meant for it to be cumulative? Well ok I guess.

But the wording as written is a yes/no condition. If yes then +1, if not then no change.

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relasine
Shas'La
Posts: 19

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#14 » Jun 16 2017 09:28

Iron-Fist wrote:Drones benefit... please let drone controllers be cumulative please

For the record, I'd be over-the-moon if this were the commonly accepted/FAQ'd outcome. The 32 Gun Drone list I'm pushing around would benefit enormously.

DVeight wrote:I will continue to beg to differ because the wording of "any" is a prefix to the hit rolls.

This is a fair point, but can equally be argued as a matter of inconsistency of rules language.

DVeight
Shas'La
Posts: 51

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#15 » Jun 16 2017 11:13

I can understand the inconsistencies of rules language but you have to take these new rules in it's simplest form rather than how it has been. They are simple rules. No reading between the lines which is what is happening.

Core rules - "all benefits are cumulative". It's one sentence. Very clear and simple English.

Now let me flip it. What benefits in T'au list are not cumulative?

It appears the arguments for pretty much all abilities with benefits under Tau are not cumulative. With the exception of drone table which is explicitly defined for a reason not to get confused.

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
Posts: 103

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#16 » Jun 17 2017 02:29

I'm surprised with what interpretations people come up with... Yea, all bonuses are cumulative, rule one says you get -1, rule two says you get +1, rule three says you get -2, it all summs up. It says nothing about one rule stacking multiple times or not.
*

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 1663

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#17 » Jun 17 2017 04:34

DVeight wrote:I can understand the inconsistencies of rules language but you have to take these new rules in it's simplest form rather than how it has been. They are simple rules. No reading between the lines which is what is happening.

Core rules - "all benefits are cumulative". It's one sentence. Very clear and simple English.

Now let me flip it. What benefits in T'au list are not cumulative?

It appears the arguments for pretty much all abilities with benefits under Tau are not cumulative. With the exception of drone table which is explicitly defined for a reason not to get confused.

We do take it in its simplest form. We just understand how the english language works. The way Drone Controller and many other effects are worded is that they are a binary condition.

If they wanted to make it cumulative they could have worded it
"Friendly <Sept> Drone units within 6" of this model add one to any hit rolls" (or add a sentence that says it's cumulative to be 100% specific about it)
This way you would get the bonus for each model with a Drone Controller you are in range with.
"Friendly <Sept> Drone units within 6" of a model equipped with a drone controller add one to any hit rolls" doesn't indicate that it stacks at all. It's binary. Are you within range of a model equipped with a drone controller? Yes? You get the bonus. That doesn't change when you are within range of 3 models with a drone controller.

The note that modifiers stack doesn't change anything. Of course modifiers stack. How else could it be? Otherwise you would always only suffer from -1 to hit even if you moved with a heavy weapon and the shoot on a Ghostkeel within range of its Stealth Drone.

I mean if they FAQ/Errata it so that it does stack it would be nice....but it would solidify of a 99% Drone List for T'au even more. Take a few Stealth Suits with Drone Controller or Commander even for the Character bonus and suddenly all your incredibly cheap Drones hit on 2+. Something no other unit could ever achieve in our army.
Actually that's another indicator that it does NOT work that way.

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relasine
Shas'La
Posts: 19

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#18 » Jun 17 2017 08:41

Panzer wrote:I mean if they FAQ/Errata it so that it does stack it would be nice....but it would solidify of a 99% Drone List for T'au even more. Take a few Stealth Suits with Drone Controller or Commander even for the Character bonus and suddenly all your incredibly cheap Drones hit on 2+. Something no other unit could ever achieve in our army.
Actually that's another indicator that it does NOT work that way.

I think at the end of the day, this is the most reasonable argument. The wording could be interpreted to make Drone Controller stack, but the end result doesn't pass the smell test.

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CDR_Farsight
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#19 » Jun 19 2017 02:52

Even under the assumption that multiple FM do not stack or that multiple DC do not stack, due to the fact that the FM "Drone Uplink" rule is different than the suit "Drone Controller" rule means that they do for at least Sniper drones.

A squad of Sniper Drones within range of a FM will get +1 to rolls for the Drone Uplink. It will then get an additional +1 if within range of any model with a Drone Controller. So Sniper Drones can at least hit on a 3+. If you can manage to markerlight your target (much harder to do if it is a character), then you can hit on a 2+ with rerolls. Too bad Drone Uplink only applies to Sniper Drones; however, masses of gun drones swarming around a stealth team or a commander with a DC shooting 4 shots and hitting on 3+ still seems pretty legit.

AleksandrGRC
Shas
Posts: 22

Re: Modifiers are cumulative. It's a thing!

Post#20 » Jun 20 2017 12:28

I thInk that
A buffed drone firing 6 shots at 3+ with rerolls is plenty. I want to win games but i want to be able to use more than a couple units and not have to deal with complaints from the other end of the table.

All i want
Is for drone units that started embarked or started 3 or less to not count as killpoints and not be able to capture objectives independently but still add model count to others that can/are.

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