Ok, so this is going to seem like a reaaaallly dumb question...Buuuutt:

When weapon hardware is bought, twinlinked weapons still count as 2 hardware point, leaving one other for another weapon or piece of wargear.

When it comes to firing the weapons, I am assuming that as long as you have a multi tracker, you can fire the twin linked weapon AND the additional weapon (therefore 2 shots from MP with re-rolls and then fire a flamer)???

ALSO, the weapons must fire at the same unit?- you can't split the flamer onto a guard squad and then fire the MP at a sentinel?

I am ashamed to ask, but as I have searched on many forums and the wording has confused me, I just want to get my facts straight?

cheers
WARHOUND

Twin-linked weapons count as one weapon, as do single weapons. So yes you can fire both of them with the Hard-wired Multi-tracker. Hope that explains well enough.

I second Firestorm's answer.



Yes, you must fire at the same unit. So if you have 3 Crisis Suits with multitrackers, all their weapons have to fire on one and the same unit. Unless you buy a crisis suit a Target Lock, meaning it can fire all of HIS weapons on another unit.

Hope this clears things up a bit

-Yabyahoo

Ah I thought of this a few months ago, and had a huge argument with GW staff that nearly got me banned . They say that you would have to choose between firing the TL weapon or the pair of weapons . this got me thinking though, as firewarriors squad leaders can have multitrackers, can you give them a pulse rifle AND a pulse carbine?

Maybe it would enable the Shas'Ui to use their Markerlight and Pulse Rifle at the same time. I've never thought of that actually, but I always give my Shas'ui the Markerlight + Targetlock wargear.

-Yabyahoo

It would indeed give that bonus. The multitracker allows you to fire two "weapons". Twin-linked weapons count as one weapon, single weapons count as one weapon, markerlights are considered a single weapon. You can not use a rifle and a carbine though. He only carries one or the other. The fact the GW employees said you could not fire the twin-linked weapons as per normal rules with a backup weapon is another example of why you can not trust just anyones points of view. They may work for GW but that don't mean the know the rules better. Remember that next time your dealing with them.

Am I glad that all shops here are independent stockists when I hear things like this. Answer them in the same logic - So a Broadside is unable to fire the TL Railguns at all, unless equipped with a Multi-tracker? Why are the other Support Systems available then?

As far as the Pulse Rifle and Carbine are concerned - check the codex entry for Fire Warriors, it explicitely states that the Pulse Rifle may be exchanged for a Pulse Carbine. So no, you may not take both on one model.

BOOOOOO
My comment states that you may use the multitracker and fire 2 weapons OR fire them as twin linked, not that you need a multi tracker to fire twin linked weapon systems.

Just see how long that ruling lasts when you insist that every other TL weapon in the game counts as two since your Tau weapons count as two. No more Vendettas moving 12" and firing, if TL Lascannon Predators want to shoot their lascannons they would have to stay still, etc.

This smells wrong to me. I've always interpreted the rules as forbidding to fire a TL-weapon together with a normal one.

Now, I'm in the middle of nowhere and without books, so, in order to avoid breaking rules by posting stuff without looking it up on paper, I'll toss this one in:
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12714&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=multi+tracker+twin

This is a pretty silly discussion to be having and whoever those GW staff were that nearly banned you must have skillfully avoided reading the 40k rulebook for their entire employment.

From the mini rulebook, p.31:
"A set of twin-linked weapons counts as a single weapon of that type."

From Tau Codex, p.26:
"The multi-tracker ... It enables the model to fire two weapon systems in the same turn."

I don't really see how these two lines can be interpreted any other way.

You can fire your flamer and twin-linked missile pod at the same target as you are firing two weapons using the multi-tracker rule, yet you may only direct those shots at a single target as a target lock only allows you to allocate your weapons independently of a unit your crisis suit may be part of. The rule for target lock does not include directing your fire from a single model to multiple units.

Well there is an overwhelming consensus about the ruling, and it as someone else pointing out if the GW employee was correct, almost every non Tau army would not be able to TL weapons at all.

Now that the ruling is clearly answered, I believe the thread should be locked.

We've actually had this rules discussion before, and I think I presented the GW Staff's argument fairly well. Let's see if I can find it...

Ahah!
Multi-trackers, Twin-Linking, and Weapon Systems, oh my!

It went for 3 pages. I think I actually present a pretty logical argument, and can at least understand WHY a GW staffer, upon reading only the rules, might end up making such a decision based on "RAW" as he understood it.

I'm glad the folks at ATT reacted as well as they did to that thread - Over at Tau Online, I got negative karma for arguing my side, and there was serious offense at my suggestions.





Regardless, all I ask is that, IF this discussion continues along the same path, everyone take a moment in time to understand what the argument is:

1. The argument DOES NOT state that a TL weapon cannot be fired without a Multi-tracker.
2. The argument DOES state that a TL weapon and another weapon (or TL weapon system) cannot both be fired, even with a Multi-tracker.

Keep those two points in mind, be kind, and this discussion might bare fruit... but probably not.




Edit: Another point to note is that I, personally, think the RAW goes directly opposite of RAI, especially given the ability of Broadsides and Fire Warriors/Pathfinders to take Multi-trackers even when they don't seem to actually work for them RAW.

I'd suggest anyone and everyone to ignore the RAW in this regard, and to suggest to any arguing otherwise that such a ruling, so clearly against the intention of the rule, makes that person as an opponent (or that store as a place to enjoy gaming) far less worthwhile.

Yes you can fire both the twin-linked weapon and the flamer as long as the model has a multi-tracker the codex makes it sound weird,The codex makes it sound like you cannot do this as it states

"Twin-linked battlesuit weapon systems: Where a weapon system is give two points values, the first is the price for the normal, single-mounted version, and the second is for two weapons (counting as a twin-linked weapon of that type). A single-mounted weapon counts as a single battlesuit weapon system, and a twin-linked weapon counts as two. No model may carry 3 of the same weapons systems. " -- page 25 of our dex

So from a RAW perspective you need it to fire a twin-linked weapon meaning vinilla broardsides cant do anything apart from stand around and have a 2+ save

it should be worded like this " a twinlinked weapon system counts as a single weapon system that takes up 2 hardpoints"

from page 26 of our dex "Multi-trackerThe multi-tracker is a sophisticated fire control system mounted in a sensor node. often upon a battlesuits shoulder. It enables the model to fire two battlesuit weapon systems in the same turn."

So as far as giving a multi trracker to a Firewarrior is pointless since its not a battlesuit of any type so it will not have battle suit weapons in the first place.

And the only model that can fire at 2 different taargets is shadowsun due to her "Advanced target lock (allowing her to target TWO enemy units, with no target priority test required)" from page 46 of our dex.

So the conclusion is the codex is worded bad you can fire twin-linked weapons with out a multi-tracker and a firewarrion is not a battlesuit so the multi tracker does nothing for them but weigh them down.

Try not to confuse what the codex should say (and I agree, that is what it should say) with what it actually says, Whitefire, as that leads to confusion.

For the record (since I don't think anyone directly answered your question), if a model takes 2 of the same battlesuit weapon system, they MUST fire it as a single TL weapon. Multi-trackers do not allow you to fire TL weapons as 2 separate weapons.

Edit: Or unless the rules for the model specifically allow it. Good catch, Daedalus Nix.

Unless some other rule allows it (IE: Commander Shadowsun)

The rules tell you that twin-linked weapons count as a single weapon. So When a Model is equipped with multi-tracker it can fire it's twin-linked weapon aswell as another weapon. It's two weapon systems. The hard points are irrelevant.

If you try to do it the other way, where you can only fire the one twin-linked weapon you wouldn't purchase broadsides at all. They wouldn't be useless but hammerheads be filling up all three heavy support choices. If that was the intention of the multi-tracker broadsides would have had it built in to their point cost.

I disagree with this as the TL railgun from a Broadside is in no way shape or form a BWS. It is simply a TL weapon that happens to be on a battlesuit. The Multi-tracker explicitly states that the model may fire two Battlesuit Weapons Systems of which the only BWS a broadside can take is the TL Plasma Rifle. This is true since neither the Railgun or SMS are classified as Battlesuit Weapon Systems. (If I am wrong here please point out the page reference but I do not believe I am)

Strictly RAW, this would mean that the Broadside can never fire both the TL Railgun and whichever other weapon it is equipped with. The BRB clearly states that a model may only fire one weapon unless a special rule gives it permission to do otherwise. The Railgun counts as a single weapon and whatever other weapon (SMS or Plasma Rifle) counts as a different weapon. The Multi-tracker explicitly states that only additional BWS can be fired meaning, from a strict RAW interpretation, that it can fire two BWS but it can only ever be equipped with one.

By the same logic, the Infantry Wargear version of the multi-tracker would be completely useless since a fire warrior can never equip a BWS.

Here is where the horrible wording of GW truly shines. It is (hopefully obviously) not the way the multi-tracker was intended as by these terms it would be a useless upgrade for Infantry and Broadsides even in 4th edition when the codex was written! Further proof of how this is not how they intended it is the sample army in the codex includes a broadside with a multi-tracker. Though, I must admit that army is hardly legal as the other broadside lacks a mandatory support system and the sky ray is many points cheaper then it actually should be.