Let's Contact GW!

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 357

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#19 » Jul 10 2017 10:03

Vay wrote:
Point being, play more and learn more. Also there is a codex coming, so asking for fixes on a stop gap makes no sense.


This is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the point of an interum index is for.

The idea is that GW can gain vital community feedback in order to make the codex balanced and stable prior to printing.

This is not wishlisting its important feedback about things that are clearly not working.

    Skyrays are broken and need redesign
    saviour protocols are broken and need a complete overhaul
    riptides and broadsides are ridiculously overpriced and need rebalacing
    markerlight table is full of useless redundancies and underpowered
    sniper drones are missing half of the sniper rules
    our commanders are broken, buffs are mediocre at best
    burst cannons are irrelevant in our index
    rail guns are overpriced and underpowered
    we don't participate in 3 of 6 phases and have no compensation for it.

This is feedback we need to give them FOR the codex, not 'after the fact'.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 333

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#20 » Jul 10 2017 10:12

Lechai Skull wrote:
Vay wrote:
Point being, play more and learn more. Also there is a codex coming, so asking for fixes on a stop gap makes no sense.


This is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the point of an interum index is for.

The idea is that GW can gain vital community feedback in order to make the codex balanced and stable prior to printing.

This is not wishlisting its important feedback about things that are clearly not working.

    Skyrays are broken and need redesign
    saviour protocols are broken and need a complete overhaul
    riptides and broadsides are ridiculously overpriced and need rebalacing
    markerlight table is full of useless redundancies and underpowered
    sniper drones are missing half of the sniper rules
    our commanders are broken, buffs are mediocre at best
    burst cannons are irrelevant in our index
    rail guns are overpriced and underpowered
    we don't participate in 3 of 6 phases and have no compensation for it.

This is feedback we need to give them FOR the codex, not 'after the fact'.

Hear hear you took the words out of my mouth. If we don't let them know this then it won't be fixed in time for our codex.

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Posts: 743

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#21 » Jul 10 2017 10:52

Ricordis wrote:Drones
- targetable
- victory points

Does Longstrike buff himself?


Drones are still useful because you can allocate wounds to them and then they take whatever damage that is rolled. Very handy in keeping suits alive against weapons that do multiple damage. As far as victory points go, ITC format counts units destroyed by using their power level, rather than each unit equaling one VP. This is a more fair way of doing it in my opinion. Talk with your opponent before hand though.

Longstrike buffs himself. FAQ removes "other" from his wording. He buffs Hammerheads and he himself is a Hammerhead.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
Posts: 879

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#22 » Jul 10 2017 10:59

These indexes are akin to a 'open beta' for videogames - while people can play using them, the codex is the final product and it should get a modified version of the index rules with the community's feedback.

Especially now that the company changed its posture and is willing to listen to the playerbase, we cannot simply shut up and follow suit with what's given to us. It would be like getting a hella buggy game and not complaining for patches to fix it! :-(

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Posts: 743

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#23 » Jul 10 2017 11:11

Vector Strike wrote:These indexes are akin to a 'open beta' for videogames - while people can play using them, the codex is the final product and it should get a modified version of the index rules with the community's feedback.

Especially now that the company changed its posture and is willing to listen to the playerbase, we cannot simply shut up and follow suit with what's given to us. It would be like getting a hella buggy game and not complaining for patches to fix it! :-(


I promise you that no major changes are going to happen with the codex aside from clarifications and the introduction of relics and stratagems and so forth. If anything changes it will be in response to the extra stuff being added (relics, stratagems, etc) to manage how they interact with the rest of the army.

The indexes are not really an open beta but more of the finished product. The codex will be the expansion. GW listening to feedback =/= them actively changing the game because you asked. That kind of thinking will lead to disappointment.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 357

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#24 » Jul 10 2017 11:21

AnonAmbientLight wrote:
The indexes are not really an open beta but more of the finished product. The codex will be the expansion. GW listening to feedback =/= them actively changing the game because you asked. That kind of thinking will lead to disappointment.


ahhhh NO,

The interim index is a stopgap so people can play in the meantime until a codex is released. They are NOT codex previews.

And yes i am ready to be horribly disappointed at GW's inability to write a set of balanced codex's
The core rules are a decent improvement. With terrain rules being the exception. They are mostly terrible!

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Posts: 743

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#25 » Jul 11 2017 12:17

Lechai Skull wrote:
The interim index is a stopgap so people can play in the meantime until a codex is released. They are NOT codex previews.


They spent eighteen months making 8th edition. One of the benefits of this was that everything was made at the same time so it could be balanced around each other rather than one army getting all the bells and whistles and older armies missing out on the new design. What you see is pretty much what you get baring some clarifications, maybe some QoL, and the addition of relics, stratagems, etc.


Lechai Skull wrote:And yes i am ready to be horribly disappointed at GW's inability to write a set of balanced codex's


According to YOU. You've barely played the game in the grand scheme of things. You've probably had a couple of games total. That's not enough time to assess anything. Hell, not even the current tournaments will be proof of anything because there's literally no meta right now.

Let me give you some insight into how these things typically go since you seem to need some clarification. If we are to see any major changes to T'au in the form of point costs or reductions or what have you, that will come probably a year or so from now. Why? Because there's just not enough data to support any of the crap you THINK needs to be fixed. Period.

Why wait that long? It gives people a chance to get used to the new rules and to, and this is important, figure out how to play the damn game. You really really really have to understand that you are playing an entirely different game right now. The more data they collect the better the assessment that they can make. Fixing things now because players don't understand how to field their army properly, or haven't discovered proper synergy means over buffing and having to fix it via nerf later.

If you want to quit and whine and fold, do so, but don't post that crap on the forum. If you absolutely have to, make a grievance thread and keep that crap out of constructive feedback posts.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

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Quorgyle
Shas'Saal
Posts: 35

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#26 » Jul 11 2017 12:44

Man, that's quite an arrogant attitude.

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Lechai Skull
Shas'Saal
Posts: 357

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#27 » Jul 11 2017 12:50

You think I'm basing my experience on 8th edition?

I've been playing 40k since before Tau and Necron even existed and i think around about when Dark Eldar were first introduced.
Its never been balanced, EVER, and 8th is starting to look more of the same.

Don't get me wrong, i think the changes to the core rules have been mostly fantastic. And most of the sculpts are great. Although they are pretty freekin lazy when it comes to tau vehicles. We have like 1 hull sculpt.

What I am saying that GW has absolutely 0 credibility when it comes to balancing the different factions. Up until recently, it had been a tenant of GW to STATE that they are a model producing company that makes some rules for players to use. and NOT a wargaming business that also supplies the miniatures. I'm not sure if this is still the claim, but this was a core aspect of their business statement in 7th.

My statement is based on history. Both new and old. Not a knee-jerk reaction based on a single battle report. Who knows, maybe they'll do a decent job and balance the factions so we can actually have battles that rely on strategy and tactics, rather than overpowered faction bias.

But i doubt it.
balanced factions don't sell models.

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AenarIT
Shas'Ui
Posts: 42

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#28 » Jul 11 2017 02:19

I'd say that we should keep the discussion on topic, let's write down the main issues we have with the Index so far.

For me it's quite simple:
- overhaul of the Markerlight table. I agree with the suggestion that it should be 1-4 ML, merging the current 1 and 2 ML bonuses. A nice addition would be adding +1BS for every ML after the 4th.
- give Battlesuits BS3+ (it's either this or additional +1BS ML bonuses).
- reassessment of Battlesuit costs (Crisis, Broadside, Riptide especially).
- overhaul of the Tidewall pieces. Having them as Open-topped transports make little sense as auras do not work.
- fix the Shield Drones, if they agree on their current little usefulness.

As for future FAQ:
- clarification on the Longstrike dilemma (does he buffs himself?).
- fix the Tiger Shark AX-1-0 in the FW Index (Titanic keyword).

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555ea
Shas'Saal
Posts: 32

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#29 » Jul 11 2017 02:41

There's an email to write to. I've asked about MV8 Missile Drones, they are 2 per unit, not 2 per broadside suit, like with crisis suits, so in order to take 6 Drones we have to take 3 broadsides suits, resulting in 3 deployment/FOC choices and 6 killpoints. It'seems fine with ITC rules, but my locals ignore them.

Still got no response, though.
gamefaqs@gwplc.com

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
Posts: 100

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#30 » Jul 11 2017 04:37

Ricordis wrote:But T'au doesn't feel like T'au anymore.



True Stuff. I've been a fan of the Tau since I first started playing. I have never played another faction, simply because I fell in love with the optimistic(ish), blue-skinned xenos. I find the imperials too gritty, the eldar too weird, the Orks just plain stupid, the Necrons creepy, the Tyranids plain terrifying (to look at and play), and I never regretted a single day of building my army. When I stopped playing for a edition due to the destruction of my army, I kept reading the GW store to track new model releases, reading up lore on the wiki, and browsing through sites like 1d4chan to read the funnier opinions on wargaming. I never really fell out of touch on anything except the rules. When I came back for the last few months of 7th edition, I began to feel the same adoration I felt back in 5th. I built up a small army (which is still being built) and I began to get the feel for the game again. However, when 8th rolled round, I felt dissapointed in the lazy writing , rushed rules and general stupidity that the writers bought. Most of all, I was devastated at how the Tau no longer felt like they had for at least 7 editions. I began to regret giving the guys at GW my hard-earnt money, and felt that a important part of my life for so many years had been shivved in the face until it was unrecognisable. GW has ruined the Tau by giving them rules that seem like pale imitations of the Tau we love. We have always been not a casual army, but a powergaming one, built for optimisation, fine tuning and awesome fighting. We were a hot rod, with 16 cylinders and a turbocharger. Now, we are a sad crapsmobile with rust and a engine that occasionally revs, but just backfires most of the time. I know this is pessimistic, but sadly, it's the truth. We really have hit the Great Tau Depression.
Live Long and Prosper RIP Nimoy

Ricordis
Shas'La
Posts: 262

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#31 » Jul 11 2017 06:57

Pete Foley twittered they are still looking at weapon damages and may have been "too cautious". So for the codices we might see some weapon damages go up.

For me that's a sign they are willing to tweak things and nothing is set in stone already.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Posts: 825

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#32 » Jul 11 2017 07:16

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:True Stuff. I've been a fan of the Tau since I first started playing. I have never played another faction, simply because I fell in love with the optimistic(ish), blue-skinned xenos. I find the imperials too gritty, the eldar too weird, the Orks just plain stupid, the Necrons creepy, the Tyranids plain terrifying (to look at and play), and I never regretted a single day of building my army.


This sounds like a lot of us! But I think Tau are still like that- optimisting, different, a fresh and unique race in the 40k galaxy.

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:However, when 8th rolled round, I felt dissapointed in the lazy writing , rushed rules and general stupidity that the writers bought. Most of all, I was devastated at how the Tau no longer felt like they had for at least 7 editions. I began to regret giving the guys at GW my hard-earnt money, and felt that a important part of my life for so many years had been shivved in the face until it was unrecognisable. GW has ruined the Tau by giving them rules that seem like pale imitations of the Tau we love. We have always been not a casual army, but a powergaming one, built for optimisation, fine tuning and awesome fighting. We were a hot rod, with 16 cylinders and a turbocharger. Now, we are a sad crapsmobile with rust and a engine that occasionally revs, but just backfires most of the time. I know this is pessimistic, but sadly, it's the truth. We really have hit the Great Tau Depression.


We're all annoyed by the nerf, but please, slow down for a minute. Every edition has ups and downs with which units are tweaked- this edition hits a little close to home. That's okay though! Learning to adapt and thrive in a dynamic galaxy is what Tau are all about- pushing the frontier.

It's going to be 8-9 months I bet before the Codex comes out, and things will change again. Don't say we've been 'ruined' just because there are balancing issues with the stopgap rules. For the time being, we're the same old great Tau with more expensive suits and weaker Markerlights, but plenty of amazing new things like CIBs, Commanders, and Gun Drones.

Do you think we can't be optimized or fine-tuned? Look at this forum. It's more alive than ever before, with tons of new people, new voices, and new ideas. We're churning out competitive lists like crazy, inventing new strategies and quickly defining the new meta.

That's the kind of dynamic, thriving, expanding faction I want to be a part of, whether or not the XV8s cost a few more points.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 333

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#33 » Jul 11 2017 07:20

Arka your freaking me out you sound like your a little out on cloud 9 or something when in reality we've got it extremely dire. If we don't look at this honestly and rationally we won't get fixed with interim rules or even a codex fix. None of these lists have actually done anything at tournaments except commander spam. That's it. Telling GW that everything is fine and nothing is wrong is a little out there right now.

If you feel the rest of the Tau fanbase is to pessimistic for your tastes you can ignore them but the data doesn't lie.

Good to hear Ricordis. We should try and get their attention if we can. When was this tweet made?

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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 2188

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#34 » Jul 11 2017 07:23

Arka0415 wrote:
Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:True Stuff. I've been a fan of the Tau since I first started playing. I have never played another faction, simply because I fell in love with the optimistic(ish), blue-skinned xenos. I find the imperials too gritty, the eldar too weird, the Orks just plain stupid, the Necrons creepy, the Tyranids plain terrifying (to look at and play), and I never regretted a single day of building my army.


This sounds like a lot of us! But I think Tau are still like that- optimisting, different, a fresh and unique race in the 40k galaxy.

I dare say that's not true. Most people here who already play for a while most likely have at least one other army. Hell some people here I even recognize from B&C! :D
I for one would love to play any army except for Craftworld Eldar. They all have something I love. Some I will start eventually even or have started. Like my Slaanesh army or my Knights of Blood. Others I will never start because of different reasons (taken by a friend, hating to paint horde armies, etc.). ;)

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Vector Strike
Shas'La
Posts: 879

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#35 » Jul 11 2017 07:52

AenarIT wrote:- fix the Tiger Shark AX-1-0 in the FW Index (Titanic keyword).


They've answered someone on this. They told him to use a rule that the Tigershark AX-1-0 can either fire its HRCs or the other weapons.

Jacket
Shas'Saal
Posts: 333

Re: Let's Contact GW!

Post#36 » Jul 11 2017 08:04

As a new player I don't have any other armies to play. A small dark eldar battle force I was building all year, but it's nowhere near game ready.

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