Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Discuss any rules that are confusing or bothering you.
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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#1 » Sep 30 2017 08:20

I read this as 0-3.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#2 » Sep 30 2017 10:16

Having the model myself, I agree with Gragagrogog.

Aj'T'au
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#3 » Sep 30 2017 11:05

Yes, the drones are an optional upgrade for Shadowsun. The wording is a bit funky, but you are not locked in to your drone choices with her.

Ricordis
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#4 » Sep 30 2017 06:50

Uhm, I think the command link drone is a must have.
It says "up to 3 drones" and "up to 2 shield drones" but not "up to 1 command link drone".
I see it as 1-3 drones and one has to be a command link drone. (So 0-2 shield drones)

armisael
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#5 » Sep 30 2017 09:31

Agreed with Ricordis, except for “her command-link drone is a mandatory”. imo, she can freely chooes her drone but at least have to take 1 (either command-link or MV52 Shield Drone)

Her rule say that “She is accompanied by up to 3 command drones” while the other, Commander for example, say that “It may be accompanied by up to 2 tactical drone”

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Gragagrogog
Shas'La
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#6 » Oct 01 2017 04:12

Hmm, I wonder if this would be more clear if we'd invent language after the concept of zero.

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Panzer
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#7 » Oct 01 2017 06:22

armisael wrote:Agreed with Ricordis, except for “her command-link drone is a mandatory”. imo, she can freely chooes her drone but at least have to take 1 (either command-link or MV52 Shield Drone)

Her rule say that “She is accompanied by up to 3 command drones” while the other, Commander for example, say that “It may be accompanied by up to 2 tactical drone”

That wording doesn't tell us anything. "up to" includes 0 as well.

Aj'T'au
Shas'Saal
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#8 » Oct 01 2017 09:01

After re-reading the entry for Shadowsun I still believe her drones to be an option, not mandatory. It is just saying that out of the 3 drones she can take only 1 may be a command-link drone.

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#9 » Oct 01 2017 09:49

While not having any drones is optional[, imo.] Why would you want to skip out on the command drone? Lol

Ricordis
Shas'La
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#10 » Oct 01 2017 07:01

"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

I emphazise it:

"She is accompanied by [...] Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone [...]."

1 is a 1, not 0 to 1. This is a fix number. How is it even possible to read that as an option? o.O

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#11 » Oct 01 2017 08:00

Battlescribe marks the Command Link as a automatic choice included in the points cost. So Yeah, the shield drones are optional, but the command drone is a definate.
Igne vir renovatur integra

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#12 » Oct 01 2017 11:44

"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

I emphazise it:

"She is accompanied by [...] Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone [...]."

1 is a 1, not 0 to 1. This is a fix number. How is it even possible to read that as an option? o.O

I checked BattleScribe and in 2 different data libraries she has the command drone as optional. If you exclude it you won't have any list validation errors. So I don't actually think it sides with mandatory drone. The programmers for the two databases haven't made it mandatory either as an error or because they believe it's optional too.

Also BattleScribe, is not GW. I believe it's optional not based on BattleScribe allowing me to cut it out (which it does), I believe it's optional because GW states it can take UP TO 3 drones(aka 0-3). They use ":" to clarify what TYPES those drones absolutely HAVE to be.
If the command drone wasn't meant to be optional they would probably have worded it like this ' She is accompanied by 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones.' this is literally less work and writing to validate your point of view, but they didn't.
(Disclaimer) Still, this is all my opinion.

If you have multitrackers already


I guess it depends on what your army list is made of. I like the idea of her giving my path finders the ability to reroll 1's with thier marker lighters before the slaughter begins. Or in a pinch she can buff herself and hit some elite unit. It's like a markerlighter, extra wound for 6 points. Or help if your markerlights are of a low count in your army list. Would probably work best on a Kroot unit. They have OK shooting and OK melee, what ever they are assaulting is probably not important enough for markerlights and so Shadowsun buff helps the large count of both types of hit rolls

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Panzer
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#13 » Oct 02 2017 01:12

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:Battlescribe marks the Command Link as a automatic choice included in the points cost. So Yeah, the shield drones are optional, but the command drone is a definate.

Battlescribe is no good reference for rules questions. It's not an official list building app and only made by some people from the community. There are plenty mistakes all the time.

PuppetMaster
Shas
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#14 » Oct 02 2017 01:52

Although new to the game, just looking at it from a semantic and grammar structure there are a few ways to break it down.

1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."


It is clear that 3 is max from before. The "and up to" COULD refer to just the shield drones. Although I'd argue 0 shield drones could be chosen, it is possible to argue it says 2-3 drones total (1 of each being mandatory). This is by just looking at the wording here and not taking into account rulings with similar wording I am unfamiliar with or other places in codex/rules.

It could also be implied to the sentence as a whole, since there is no full break or "," dividing the semantic reference. In this case all drones would be optional with max values for each type (1 & 2 for a total not exceeding 3).

Similar word rulings since before is probably the closest one will get.
If I played another army and the opponent tau showed me it asking for ok to go with their list, I would not mind. If forced to make a ruling with no more data, I'd say 1 + 0-2 for 1-3 drones.

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#15 » Oct 02 2017 08:20

PuppetMaster wrote:Although new to the game, just looking at it from a semantic and grammar structure there are a few ways to break it down.

1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

Welcome aboard, comrade. :) Anyways your analysis is great. It does lacks an explanation for the colon GW used in the description of what Shadowsun can take. I believe that colon in critical for shadowsun's correct interpretation, and colons can be used as an expansion of an explanation.
"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."


That colon is important.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#16 » Oct 05 2017 02:24

Ok let's look at this from another point of view.

If this was a breakfast menu amd you ordered the English breakfast that comes with bacon, sausage, eggs, and beans and can be accompanied by up to 3 extra sides: 1 black pudding and up to 2 pieces of toast.

Would you say you have to have the black pudding?

I wouldn't and the same applies to shadowsun and her drones you can have that 1 command drone if you so wish but it is by no means mandatory.

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Panzer
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#17 » Oct 05 2017 02:28

If the Command-Link Drone were mandatory it would've been listed seperately as:
"She is accompanied by 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."
instead of
"She is accompanied by up to 3 Command Drones: 1 MV62 Command-Link Drone and up to 2 MV52 Shield Drones."

The wording is pretty clear, really.

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Arka0415
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Re: Rule question regarding Shadowsun's drones.

Post#18 » Oct 05 2017 03:10

Nymphomanius wrote:If this was a breakfast menu amd you ordered the English breakfast that comes with bacon, sausage, eggs, and beans and can be accompanied by up to 3 extra sides: 1 black pudding and up to 2 pieces of toast.

I like this analogy! The trick is that the phrase "can be accompanied by" comes before the Command-Link Drone (or black pudding).

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