Jhul'Vol's Cadre

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Jhul'vol
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 43

Jhul'Vol's Cadre

Post#1 » Dec 13 2017 05:55

Hi all,

A little on front information:
About a month ago I attended a Dutch GT with my Tau army, ending 21th of 43 players. As my goal was to stay out of the bottom 25% I am pretty happy with this result.

However, next time I want to go higher, without compromising my own rules for my army (I am aware this will hamper the list) and the rules we use for this GT.

My own rules:
- No commander spam --> I think 2 commanders should be the max, currently using a regular and coldstar as "Shas'el" and "Shas'o"
- Preferably no kroot/auxiliary units, while Farsight himself currently is shelved I still like to think I'm playing old school enclaves ;) Currently looking at converting Fire Warriors into Vespids, but that's a future project.

Tournament rules:
- No duplicate detachments
- No Forgeworld
- No unit entry can be taken more than 3 times, except for troops/transports, which have a max of 4.
- You can't have more transports than units that can actually use them (i.e. if you run only battlesuits, you can't have devilfish). Not really an issue with T'au.

All missions are a combination of maelstrom, eternal war and killpoints. Scoring was done by adding maelstrom and eternal war points and the difference in killpoints with a max of 8. The amount of points you won by was divided by 2 and added to 10 for your points to a max of 20. The loser got whatever was leftover of the 20 points.


The list I brought was the following, split in a batallion and vanguard detachment.
HQ: Coldstar Commander, ATS, Shield Generator [Warlord, Tenacious Survivor]
HQ: Quad Fusion Commander
HQ: Cadre Fireblade
Elite: 5x Stealth Suits, incluiding Shas'vre. Homing Beacon and Fusion Blaster w/ Velocity Tracker
Elite: Ghostkeel Battlesuit, CIR, 2x FB, ATS and TL
Elite: Ghostkeel Battlesuit, FC, 2x FB, MT and TL
Troop: 10x Fire Warriors, including Shas'ui w/ Markerlight
Troop: 10x Fire Warriors, including Shas'ui w/ Markerlight
Troop: 10x Fire Warriors, including Shas'ui w/ Markerlight
FA: 7x Pathfinder, including Shas'ui
FA: 7x Pathfinder, including Shas'ui, also 2 Shield Drones, PA Drone and Grav-Drone
HS: XV88 Broadside Battlesuit, HYMP, SMS, ATS, 2 Shield Drones
HS: XV88 Broadside Battlesuit, HYMP, SMS, ATS, 2 Shield Drones
Flyer: Sun Shark Bomber, including extra missile pod.


The coldstar commander as warlord was golden. He helped me pull ahead in maelstrom multiple times and giving me eternal war points every single game.
QFC was.. OK'ish, combined with bad luck and a lack of redundancy he often fell short of doing his job.

The CIR ghostkeel was often underperforming, but proved to be an amazing bullet sponge.
Broadsides were a powerful main firebase when combined with the commanders reroll everything. Killed 2 daemon primarchs by sheer weight of fire.

Sun shark was also pretty good, but mainly due to my lucky bomb rolls (deleted multiple squads with the bombs alone). Also liked to have the 2 seeker missiles just to finish off vehicles/monsters on 1/2 wounds.


The problems with my list were two-fold on this tournament:
- Due to the extra drone squads, I was worth a lot of kill points, giving away more kill points then I got in most games, even with 2x almost wiping my opponent.
- I felt I had a lack of screen. I used the fire warriors as much as I could without just throwing them away, as they still hold a lot of fire power. However facing 2x Alpha Legion and 1x Stygies the infiltrators were a big issue.


My collection further holds:
3x Stealth Suits with Burst Cannon
11x XV8 crisis suits, fully magnetised. Only 2 CIB's available.
2x Hammerheads, one could be a Skyray, one could be upgraded to Longstrike. Weapons all magnetised.
1x Fusion Piranha
20 Breachers, of which 2x Shas'ui
2x Devilfish.
Several pathfinders with markers, at least 4x Rail Rifles, 4x Ion
1x Broadside locked in HYMP. The two in my list can get HRR. 4th one in sprue.
3x Riptide, 1x Ion Accelerator, 1x Heavy Burst, 1x unbuilt.
1x Ghostkeel unbuilt. Other 2 can swap weapons.
1x Aun'va
1x Ethereal on Disk
1x Darkstrider
1x Farsight
A sprinkling of drones. Not sure about the amounts, but 10+ gun drones and 5+ marker drones at least.


So ATT, my question:
What would you do with this list? I would like to improve without straying too far from it, simply because this is fully painted, but all comments/critiques/suggestions are welcome.

Thanks!

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 480

Re: Jhul'Vol's Cadre

Post#2 » Dec 13 2017 11:46

Jhul'vol wrote:My own rules:
- No commander spam --> I think 2 commanders should be the max, currently using a regular and coldstar as "Shas'el" and "Shas'o"

QFC was.. OK'ish, combined with bad luck and a lack of redundancy he often fell short of doing his job.


You did this to yourself. If you don't take two QFC's, you're only hampering yourself. Use the tourney rules of 3 max of any unit and you'll probably do much MUCH better.

Jhul'vol wrote:Broadsides were a powerful main firebase when combined with the commanders reroll everything.


Uhhhh, how can they reroll everything? Our new relic allows one reroll, IE one single dice reroll, of any one thing in that list. Basically it's a second command CP reroll for free in the same phase, most likely shooting phase for us.

I know you only have 2 CIB's but maybe wait and see if something drastic happens to them with the codex and if it doesn't drop the money for the extra 7 or so to fill a squad of xv-8's. Take a second squad of crisis with flamers. Fish with drones and fireblade is cute. Darkstrider and breachers could fill another one. Take as many pathfinders with ion rifles as you can. Max the drones everywhere. Min squad your FW and go hold objectives and put hidden lights in them just to get your battalion.

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Jhul'vol
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 43

Re: Jhul'Vol's Cadre

Post#3 » Dec 13 2017 01:43

Yojimbob wrote:
Jhul'vol wrote:My own rules:
- No commander spam --> I think 2 commanders should be the max, currently using a regular and coldstar as "Shas'el" and "Shas'o"

QFC was.. OK'ish, combined with bad luck and a lack of redundancy he often fell short of doing his job.


You did this to yourself. If you don't take two QFC's, you're only hampering yourself. Use the tourney rules of 3 max of any unit and you'll probably do much MUCH better.


I am well aware that more commanders is better. It's just that I'm still pretty oppossed to the idea of having 3 commanders on one battlefield. If the commander would remain this much better in the codex I might go for it, but for now I'm trying to work around it.

Yojimbob wrote:
Jhul'vol wrote:Broadsides were a powerful main firebase when combined with the commanders reroll everything.


Uhhhh, how can they reroll everything? Our new relic allows one reroll, IE one single dice reroll, of any one thing in that list. Basically it's a second command CP reroll for free in the same phase, most likely shooting phase for us.

I know you only have 2 CIB's but maybe wait and see if something drastic happens to them with the codex and if it doesn't drop the money for the extra 7 or so to fill a squad of xv-8's. Take a second squad of crisis with flamers. Fish with drones and fireblade is cute. Darkstrider and breachers could fill another one. Take as many pathfinders with ion rifles as you can. Max the drones everywhere. Min squad your FW and go hold objectives and put hidden lights in them just to get your battalion.


I meant with Kauyon, not the entire game. Sorry if I was unclear.
I agree on the CIB part, mainly waiting for the codex to get some from somewhere like Shapeways to add in.
Maybe it's me or my meta, but I have so far been severly disappointed by flamer crisis. The best they ever did was kill about 15 ork boys before dying. Most of the time their short range means they can attack once in the shooting phase, once in overwatch and then they die.

User avatar
Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 480

Re: Jhul'Vol's Cadre

Post#4 » Dec 13 2017 02:18

Jhul'vol wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Jhul'vol wrote:My own rules:
- No commander spam --> I think 2 commanders should be the max, currently using a regular and coldstar as "Shas'el" and "Shas'o"

QFC was.. OK'ish, combined with bad luck and a lack of redundancy he often fell short of doing his job.


You did this to yourself. If you don't take two QFC's, you're only hampering yourself. Use the tourney rules of 3 max of any unit and you'll probably do much MUCH better.


I am well aware that more commanders is better. It's just that I'm still pretty oppossed to the idea of having 3 commanders on one battlefield. If the commander would remain this much better in the codex I might go for it, but for now I'm trying to work around it.

Yojimbob wrote:
Jhul'vol wrote:Broadsides were a powerful main firebase when combined with the commanders reroll everything.


Uhhhh, how can they reroll everything? Our new relic allows one reroll, IE one single dice reroll, of any one thing in that list. Basically it's a second command CP reroll for free in the same phase, most likely shooting phase for us.

I know you only have 2 CIB's but maybe wait and see if something drastic happens to them with the codex and if it doesn't drop the money for the extra 7 or so to fill a squad of xv-8's. Take a second squad of crisis with flamers. Fish with drones and fireblade is cute. Darkstrider and breachers could fill another one. Take as many pathfinders with ion rifles as you can. Max the drones everywhere. Min squad your FW and go hold objectives and put hidden lights in them just to get your battalion.


I meant with Kauyon, not the entire game. Sorry if I was unclear.
I agree on the CIB part, mainly waiting for the codex to get some from somewhere like Shapeways to add in.
Maybe it's me or my meta, but I have so far been severly disappointed by flamer crisis. The best they ever did was kill about 15 ork boys before dying. Most of the time their short range means they can attack once in the shooting phase, once in overwatch and then they die.


I guess I don't get why 2 is fine but 3 is crazy. The tournament is already fairly limiting in what you can take anyway and trust me I feel your pain on having a bunch of commanders but unfortunately GW nerfed us into this position.

Totally misunderstood the reroll portion. Getting rerolls to hit is good but did you find the str 7 guns lacking against armor or did it work out ok? Did you have bs3+ on the broadsides due to ML?

I'm still on the fence about flamer crisis but I feel like it has more benefits than downsides when going into a tournament setting. Need to run them more and see where it stands, especially against Eldar with all their - to hit.

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Jhul'vol
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 43

Re: Jhul'Vol's Cadre

Post#5 » Dec 13 2017 02:55

Well.. to me 2 isn't fine, but borderline. I guess I'll just try it once in a practice game to see how I feel when playing them.

For the broadside combined them with markers for BS3+ yeah. Together with an ATS you're facing invuln saves most of the time anyways, so I didn't find the AP lacking.

If I would have faced eldar maybe the flamers would've been nice. Sadly it was 3x Chaos and 2x Admech though.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 480

Re: Jhul'Vol's Cadre

Post#6 » Dec 13 2017 04:08

Definitely not worried about AP since -2 is great, I was worried more about wounding and actually getting to do damage against tanks. I suppose with BS3+ with rerolls we miss one or two from all the broadside shots so I guess that helps with the volume of S7 shots getting through. Going to do some math to see if maybe broadsides aren't terrible with ML support. :smile:

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