2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

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Tjaden_Logic
Shas
Posts: 2

2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

Post#1 » Oct 01 2017 11:06

Hey Guys,

I am a new player to 40k started a month after 8th edition released and I am entering a tournament at my local shop with 24+ players entering as well. I have about 15 games total experience and have watched every 8th edition battle report for Tau and have read most relevant posts at ATT regarding Tau and 8th edition. I wanted to share the list I've been working on to gain the feedback of the greater Tau community.

My typical play group is vs a Death Guard player w/Mortarion, a Salamander player with a wide variety of flyers/transports/primaris marine variants, and a Sisters/Custodes player with Celestine/Guilliman/all the Assassins. I've played vs another Tau player, a Tyranid player and a Harlequinn player as well. The majority of my games were vs Death Guard, Salamander and Sisters/Custodes player. The terrain that is available to play on is often ruins or hills (which we play as gives infantry cover). My greater challenges so far has been nerves (i Played my games 8-11 in a six man tournament, super nervous), Y'vahra getting alpha striked turn one (this happened three times before I learned to take drones with them and reduce my deployment count to get first turn advantage) and MSU/horde + arty type lists (tyranid player, hence the five flamers on the XV8s).

Check the list out:

HQ - Cadre Fireblade 42 points
Pulse Rifle, Markerlight

HQ - XV86 Coldstar Commander 158 points
Shield Generator, 2x MV4 Shield Drones

HQ - Commander 160 points
4x Fusion Blaster

ELITE - XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (4) 332 points
1x Shas'vre 2x Plasma Rifle, 1 Flamer; 2x Shas'ui (2 Plasma Rifle, 1 Flamer); 1x Shas'ui (2 Flamer, Drone Controller); 2x MV4 Shield Drones, 4x MV1 Gun Drones

ELITE - Stealth Battlesuits (4) 145 points
1x Shas'vre Burst Cannon, Drone Controller; 3x Shas'ui Burst Cannon; Homing Beacon

FAST ATTACK - Tactical Drones 40 points
5x MV1 Gun Drones

FAST ATTACK - Tactical Drones 48 points
6 MV1 Gun Drones

FAST ATTACK - Pathfinder Team 40 points
1x Pathfinder Shas'ui Pulse Carbine, Pulse Pistol, Markerlight; 4x Pathfinder Pulse Carbine, Markerlight

FAST ATTACK - Pathfinder Team 40 points
1x Pathfinder Shas'ui Pulse Pistol; 4x Pathfinder

FAST ATTACK - XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit 434 points
Stimulant Injector, Target Lock, 2x MV52 Shield Drones

FAST ATTACK - XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit 434 points
Stimulant Injector, Target Lock, 2x MV52 Shield Drones

DEDICATED TRANSPORT - Devilfish 127 points
2x MV1 Gun Drones

The List is organized into two Outrider Detachments, for a total of five command points. The army has nine deployments, three in Manta Strike and six on the table, which eventually splits off into 17 different units. I often have first turn advantage. The two tactical drone squads and Cadre Fireblade go in the Devilfish for one deployment.

On the short deployment scenarios I like to use the Stealth Battlesuits to position onto a center objective or on a "far side/opponent side" objective or opponent third of the board in cover. On the long deployment scenarios I like to position onto the center objective or in the middle third of the map where there is cover. Pathfinders deploy to vanguard with intent to occupy my near side flank objectives/position into cover. On short deployment scenarios Y'vahras deploy behind LOS blocking terrain (if possible) but up close enough to turn one advance and Mont'ka. On long deployment scenarios I deploy Y'vahras on flanks, but typically deploy all the units on the board to favor one side to deny pincer flanking/flank denial.

On long deployment scenarios my main objective in turn one is to advance the Y'vahras into striking position behind LOS blocking terrain (if possible) and advance the Devilfish into a position 24"-27" away from their main bubblewrap/cluster of forces. Trying to position for a turn two Mont'Ka advance with Y'vahras and drones flying out of the Devilfish (unit of 5, unit of 6, and unit of 2 [the one that comes with the Devilfish]). Smartly positioning the drones to allow the Commander to drop, moving my cluster up in advance and using an unexpected Mont'Ka tactic to allow Y'vahras to fire and using the Cadre Fireblade to buff the amount of shots per drone from four to six and smartly positioning the stealth battlesuit team with drone controller to give better accuracy for hits with those drone shots and/or dropping the XV8s to give the buff and lend fire support.

I got the Devilfish + 11 Drones + Cadre Fireblade idea from another post at ATT (I can't find the original one I saw I would have linked otherwise), took it to my first tournament and it did surprisingly well. The idea of 78 strength 5 1 damage shots for 257 points just seems way too efficient (82 if you add in the Devilfish's Burst Cannon).

A big Indicator of where the main cluster is going is what side the Stealth Battlesuits go, as they can drop homing beacon and crisis suits drop into flamer range with a line of drones to cover any charges. I typically like to pick a side and drive through. If the opponents deployment is spread out, I focus their weak side with Y'vahras positioned towards the center/open flank. If the opponent deployment is clustered, I'll make it seem like I spread out but keeping everything relatively 'fanned out' in the middle and swing to one side when the moment presents itself. Usually I just dive into their cluster with Mont'Ka and have the Coldstar drop onto their flank to harass.

If the opponent doesn't have deep strike/reinforcement capabilities then I plan to leave behind a unit of MV52 Shield drones on my deployment zone objective. Even if they do they have a hard time getting through that 3++ and 5+FNP (i just thought of this my last game it worked out, I want to test this tactic more).

I just got my second Y'vahra and haven't had a chance to play lot to play with it yet. By adding it I lost my long range capabilities that I'm used to (Longstrike + 1x Hammerhead) but after seeing the Invasive Gaming guy run two in his competitive list I felt like I was making a good decision to do so.

I guess for my first post it's kind of wordy. I don't usually post on these boards but I wanted gain feedback and wanted the reader to have an idea of where I was thinking strategically/tactically with the list. My collection is pretty varied and I have access to most competitive units: Longstrike, multiple TX7 bodies (only one ion head though), Ghostkeel, Stormsurge, Strike/Breacher teams, Ethereal with or w/o hover drone, Kroot even lol (but two commanders is all I got though).

I am looking forward to all of your feedback on my list and tactics and using it to become a better Tau player and serving the Greater Good.

Silvtalon
Shas
Posts: 220

Re: 2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

Post#2 » Oct 01 2017 11:40

Well with your current list and as you said you want to keep it as close as to what you have with improvements I will give you some good suggestions I think that maybe of good use to you.

Firstly
Remove the shield drones off your XV86 and put them with your other drone units. This eliminates an easy first blood kill the enemy could make by expanding basic firepower to remove. Your commander should never be exposed as closest target to any firing unit normally.

Second
Your Y'vahra suits will be most likely supported by your gun drone units most likely to help reduce/eliminate the wounds your big suits take that's fine and all. But we want to make these units very annoying more so then easy to blow away drones. Replace these gun drones for the more resilient Shield drones 4 Inv and 5 FNP will be more beneficial for you in the long run. I use a heavy deep strike farsight list does heavy damage with its alpha and can survive pretty fierce return fire to boot the shield drones I use in my list are well worth the investment in my oppion.

Egi: Lascannon hits your Y'vahra you toss the wound off to the shield drone, roll a 5+ and your drone sticks around a bit longer.

Third
Your crisis suit load outs are painfully (in a bad way) equipped. If they are there to support your Y'vahra then you need to think what type of load out will work best for your needs. Then tool all your suits with the same load out to achieve the best performance. Flamers are good if you want to be charged or you can get that close the the enemy but in almost most cases if your crisis suits are equipped right their firepower alone should annihilate anything close even on deep strike and make the enemy pause in at the attempt to charge them. Given your game play style and how you want to run your list, I have two load outs you might find very useful.

All the plasma..
3 suits, 9 plasma rifles = 18 shots at 12inches

All a'rounder
2 CIB's, velocity tracker = 18 shots at 18 inches normal stats, overcharged 6 to 18 shots (average 10-13) with d3 damage good for vehicles and monsters.

Lastly as for Drone controllers, it is normally not even worth it to use the 8 points you spend on them. The slots for your crisis suits in either weapons or support gear tend to give you more bang for your buck. As your list really needs more shield drones to keep your big guys alive then it does shooting drones. Even with the bonus to hit form a drone controller you can't really make good use of them with out proper marker light support and numbers of drones. In short some of your points in your list can easily go to bolstering your drone units or creating a new one giving you more annoying shield drones the enemy has to deal with.


Anyhow as a side note if you want to see my farsight enclave list I currently use that is a very brutal deep strike, alpha strike list or my new tau list The Adorable. Message me, I'll happy send you the info on the lists.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3134

Re: 2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

Post#3 » Oct 02 2017 01:24

I just took a quick look, so only a few things that caught my eye.

Give the Coldstar an ATS (Automatic Targeting System) to improve its damage output. Especially for his HO Burst Cannon.

Same for the Burst Cannon Stealth Suits unless you really want to save the points there.

Plasma on Crisis is okay, you just have to be within 12" for them to be worth it. though even then they get kinda outclassed by Cyclic Ion Blaster.
A flamer for the third slot is personal preference but surely not a bad option for the more close ranged loadouts.

Silvtalon wrote:Firstly
Remove the shield drones off your XV86 and put them with your other drone units. This eliminates an easy first blood kill the enemy could make by expanding basic firepower to remove. Your commander should never be exposed as closest target to any firing unit normally.

This really depends to be honest. If you are going to go second it's a viable decision to put the Coldstar into reserves and Manta Strike him. In that case having two personal Shield Drones is really good.
Of course ideally your opponent won't be able to shoot at the Coldstar anyway, however I often had the case that I wanted to drop my Coldstar on my first turn on an objective I otherwise couldn't get and it was has never been a bad decision to give him the Shield Drones for that so far.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1554

Re: 2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

Post#4 » Oct 02 2017 07:48

Give the Colstar an ATS, switch Shield Drones on to the Fusion Commander, fix the XV8 loadout (CIBs if you have them, but I'll write the list with Plasma Rifles for now), fix the Y'vahras, and you should be set.

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ ATS, Shield Generator (150)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites- 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (267)
Elites - 4x Stealthsuits w/ 4x Burst Cannons, 1x Drone Controller; Homing Beacon (145)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - 5x Pathfinders w/ 5x Markerlights (40)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)

This is 1905 points, leaving us decent room to grow. Keeping your Markerlights alive will be important in this army, so let's increase the size of the Pathfinder squads and add some Ion Rifles to them too. Then we can add a Shield Generator to one Stealthsuit (just to use the remaining points) and call it a list.

-

HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ ATS, Shield Generator (150)
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites- 3x XV8s w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6x Gun Drones (267)
Elites - 4x Stealthsuits w/ 4x Burst Cannons, 1x Drone Controller, 1x Shield Generator; Homing Beacon (153)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (84)
Fast Attack - 9x Pathfinders w/ 6x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (84)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)
Fast Attack - Y'vahra w/ Target Lock, ATS (415)

Total: 2001 - Command Points: 5 (2 Outrider Detachments)

-

You can also ignore those secondary changes and just give the XV8s some CIBs instead. What do you think?

Tjaden_Logic
Shas
Posts: 2

Re: 2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

Post#5 » Oct 13 2017 01:46

Thanks for the advice guys! I managed to secure some CIBs from a bit vendor. Never realized how strong they were until everyone started talking about them. I think they're awesome!

User avatar
Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 104

Re: 2k Competitive List for 24+ player tournament

Post#6 » Oct 13 2017 05:22

Tjaden_Logic wrote:Hey Guys,
and MSU/horde + arty type lists (tyranid player, hence the five flamers on the XV8s).

The flamers seems absolutely justified to me. They can combo off your stealthsuits homing beacon, too!
Tjaden_Logic wrote:The idea of 78 strength 5 1 damage shots for 257 points just seems way too efficient (82 if you add in the Devilfish's Burst Cannon).

Your math seems off to me. I will assume Cadre is using markerlight support to make my math simplified.

If over 9": 4shots(11drones + 2 embarked drones(fish))+burst cannon(fish)=56

If under 9" range: each drone gets an additional shot PER GUN. Devil fish also gets buff. 6shots(11drones + 2 embarked drones(fish))+burst cannon(fish)=82

Tjaden_Logic wrote:My greater challenges so far has been nerves (I played my games 8-11 in a six man tournament, super nervous),

Life tip:Learning to breath from your diaphragm can help you deal with nervousness. It has helped me profoundly. To learn how to do that I recommend to start this video at 13:46 and watching it to the 15 min mark. https://youtu.be/a2MR5XbJtXU


Silvtalon wrote:Your crisis suit load outs are painfully (in a bad way) equipped. If they are there to support your Y'vahra then you need to think what type of load out will work best for your needs. Then tool all your suits with the same load out to achieve the best performance.


Tooling units with a same load out is my personal preference, too :smile: . However, I cannot reccommend it to another player as an absolute. It makes rolling dice easier. It makes it easier to synergize the weapons to the task they are preforming. I have tried flamers on crisis suits with other weapons. It has been good for Overwatch. Also there is a meta opponent which justifies them. I think the flamers are alright here.
Silvtalon wrote:Lastly as for Drone controllers, it is normally not even worth it to use the 8 points you spend on them. The slots for your crisis suits in either weapons or support gear tend to give you more bang for your buck.

I actually love this support system. It cost 5 points, not 8. The OP crisis suits are less optimized by not having more shooty drones with it. His overall list benefits greatly. With his 4 drones he is gaining only about ~2.6 extra hits. That's about equivalent to gaining one unbuffered drone. So 5 points to gain 8 points worth an effect seems OK. Where it can get absurd is manta striking the crisis suits near a devilfish target. The math above (devilfish)gains an additional 1/6 hits before any reroll effects. So 82 shots pre-markerlight can turn into 41 hits (versus ~27.3 hits without dc). His crisis suits DC is his second DC. I don't think that's bad though. having only one dc feels like 'putting all eggs in one basket' to me.

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