Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 261

Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#1 » Jan 10 2018 10:44

Current list (updated 1/14/18)
Spoiler!
++ Outrider Detachment [249pts] ++
Longstrike(WL=Kauyon) [201]: 2Drone, Rail, 2 Seeker
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment [496pts] ++
Stormsurge [496pts]: 2xBurst, PDC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

++ Supreme Command Detachment [1255pts] ++
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x gun Drone
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x gun Drone
Commander*(PEN)*[ 172]: 3x MP/ats, 2xgun drone
XV8 Crisis [279pts]: 8x Plasma ,(1Dc), 6marker
Stormsurge [496pts]: 2xBurst, PDC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

Total: 2000 points 5CP
Last edited by Lostroninsoul on Jan 14 2018 09:31, edited 5 times in total.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 261

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#2 » Jan 10 2018 10:45

Above will be the up to date list for easy reference.

Here is my (fully magnetised) collection:

Spoiler!
1 coldstar
3commanders
2ethereal (1 hover drone)
22 FW w/ pulse rifles
3 stealth suits
15 FW breachers
50 kroot
Darkstrider
Firesight marksman
3sniper drones
6 forgeworld dx technical drones
12 kroot hound
Longstrike
Farsight (in assembly)
Shadowsun
20 pathfinders (normal)
9 ion path finders
3rail pathfinders
Devil fish
3 fireblade cadre
2 stormsurge
9 crisis suits
~9marker drones
~12 gun drones
~6 shield drone
Weapons:
17- homemade CIBs
9 -gw CIBs
~ +16 FB
~ 16 mp
Last edited by Lostroninsoul on Jan 11 2018 11:45, edited 8 times in total.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 261

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#3 » Jan 10 2018 10:46

Starting list ( 1/10/18)

++ Outrider Detachment [249pts] ++
Longstrike(WL=Kauyon) [201pts]: 2Drone, Rail, 2 Seeker
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment [442pts] ++
Stormsurge [442pts]: 2xBurst, PBC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

++ Supreme Command Detachment [1309pts] ++
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x Shield Drone
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x Shield Drone
Commander (relic:PEN)[ 176pts]: 4x FB, 2x Shield Drone
XV8 Crisis [383pts]: 8x MP ,(1Dc), 6marker drones
Stormsurge [442pts]: 2xBurst, PBC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

Total: 2000 points 5CP

Stormsurge's are in the list to primarily tank massive damage. They also can help with early removal of heavily armored targets (like Magus) with destroyer missles. An average of 30 strength 5 shots with-1AP is also pretty decent. I like stim injectors but I want to try out VT. The shield generator and ATS are irreplaceable systems. The pulse blaster cannon is the only viable cannon right now. I like the "go big or go home" feeling they bring to the table.

Longstrike is equipped with gun drone to allow me to capture an objective if needed. Also my model counts are low and are they are the cheapest option. The warlord trait exemplar of Kauyon helps defend my Stormsurges with greater good. Being a backfield HQ makes it a little harder for my opponent to score "slay the warlord". I also like his self buffs from the abilities Fire Caste Exemplar and Tank Ace.

Crisis team has the role of markerlight support. I am trying out missle pods because the expensive crisis teams get removed pretty quick when carrying close range CIBs and fusion blasters. I am experimenting with seeing if the Missle pod range will increase average longevity of drones and suits. The drones really are in the list to capitalize on a single turn of destroyer missles/seeker missiles massive range and massive damage. Getting to 5 markerlights with the marker light stratagem is fairly easy now. There is a Magus in my local meta and I figure the ability to deal an average of 17.5555 mortal wounds to it on turn 1 should help my matchup. I do well in the events but have yet to beat him when I get to the finals (and that player wins all the events so far I played in)

CiB commanders are my catch all. Primarily, they will be used to hunt elites. I bought a special set of d3 dice (large D6 shaped) to help make overcharging clearer for my opponent (and myself) to follow along. I feel it helps tremendously speed up resolution.

Fusion blaster commander is anti tank. Having the puretide chip in reserve is less than ideal for CP generation. Having a PEN reroll with the reroll stratagem is probably better value however by allowing my to have up to two rerolls in a shooting phase in an area where it will more likely count.

Kroot hounds are cheap bubble wrap which nets me an extra cp point. They can also cover massive ground on undefended objectives.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2613

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#4 » Jan 11 2018 12:29

So, is this just a list designed to kill Magnus? If it's worked out for you I can't argue with that, but you have over 1600 points of units designed to kill tanks and large creatures. I would have thought one Stormsurge to be enough, but you're adding another Stormsurge, Longstrike, an Fusion XV8 squad, and a Fusion Commander? If big things are a problem in your local meta then go for it, but otherwise it seems like this list is tipped way too far toward killing big things.

Have you actually used it in games yet?

Edit: Also, how does Exemplar of Kauyon help Longstrike? Isn't he always going to be on the move?

gunrock
Shas
Posts: 47

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#5 » Jan 11 2018 04:19

Lostroninsoul wrote:Starting list ( 1/10/18)

++ Outrider Detachment [249pts] ++
Longstrike(WL=Kauyon) [201pts]: 2Drone, Rail, 2 Seeker
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment [442pts] ++
Stormsurge [442pts]: 2xBurst, PBC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

++ Supreme Command Detachment [1309pts] ++
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x Shield Drone
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x Shield Drone
Commander (relic:PEN)[ 176pts]: 4x FB, 2x Shield Drone
XV8 Crisis [383pts]: 8x MP ,(1Dc), 6marker drones
Stormsurge [442pts]: 2xBurst, PBC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

Total: 2000 points 5CP

Stormsurge's are in the list to primarily tank massive damage. They also can help with early removal of heavily armored targets (like Magus) with destroyer missles. An average of 30 strength 5 shots with-1AP is also pretty decent. I like stim injectors but I want to try out VT. The shield generator and ATS are irreplaceable systems. The pulse blaster cannon is the only viable cannon right now. I like the "go big or go home" feeling they bring to the table.

Longstrike is equipped with gun drone to allow me to capture an objective if needed. Also my model counts are low and are they are the cheapest option. The warlord trait exemplar of Kauyon helps defend my Stormsurges with greater good. Being a backfield HQ makes it a little harder for my opponent to score "slay the warlord". I also like his self buffs from the abilities Fire Caste Exemplar and Tank Ace.

Crisis team has the role of markerlight support. I am trying out missle pods because the expensive crisis teams get removed pretty quick when carrying close range CIBs and fusion blasters. I am experimenting with seeing if the Missle pod range will increase average longevity of drones and suits. The drones really are in the list to capitalize on a single turn of destroyer missles/seeker missiles massive range and massive damage. Getting to 5 markerlights with the marker light stratagem is fairly easy now. There is a Magus in my local meta and I figure the ability to deal an average of 17.5555 mortal wounds to it on turn 1 should help my matchup. I do well in the events but have yet to beat him when I get to the finals (and that player wins all the events so far I played in)

CiB commanders are my catch all. Primarily, they will be used to hunt elites. I bought a special set of d3 dice (large D6 shaped) to help make overcharging clearer for my opponent (and myself) to follow along. I feel it helps tremendously speed up resolution.

Fusion blaster commander is anti tank. Having the puretide chip in reserve is less than ideal for CP generation. Having a PEN reroll with the reroll stratagem is probably better value however by allowing my to have up to two rerolls in a shooting phase in an area where it will more likely count.

Kroot hounds are cheap bubble wrap which nets me an extra cp point. They can also cover massive ground on undefended objectives.


Hey Ronin!
I'm happy to see a stormsurge build in the forums, especially one that doubles down. This list is pretty different then anything I have to play with, so I don't have that much constructive to say on a lot of your aspects of the list, but I do have a few general thoughts:

- The markerlight base seems a bit fragile especially considering some of the other synergies you have in the list. Fusion commanders can actually function without support, but the CIB commanders I think might be really hurt by it especially considering they're set up to attack armor where the overcharge might be relevant and really require markerlights.

- I understand wanting to extend the life of XV-8's, but that 383 point price tag made me reel. Putting them farther away might buy them some time, but I think the best thing you can do to extend their life is add more drones somewhere in your list. Gun drones might also help fill out your S5 to address swarms. Seeing as how this is more of a 'sit back and shoot' style list I would really consider switching to MP commanders if you really feel you need MP. The point savings can also buy you a cluster of shield drones to extend his life as well as getting character rules. On the back line he can also Kauyon your storm surges, and doesn't need much marker-light support to function. The other thing is the S7 -1 AP profile is not that hard to get, I suspect you could run 8 squads of pathfinders with ion rifles and get similar performance while completely covering your flanks, being more flexible against infantry, fill out your markerlights, and still break even.

- I get that the kroot hounds are basically there just to bubble wrap the storm-surge from deepstrike, but I think the points might be better spent on pathfinders or drones who can do the same job and fill other functional roles in your army. They also get vanguard move which makes them even better flank wrapping and would address marker light support.

- I would consider cutting longstrike, you already have 2 big guns in the form of stormsurge plus CIB's and Fusion to take care of armor, the extra points would give you some much needed breathing room to better support your big money units, maybe netting you some drones, pathfinders, etc. Retooling the XV-8 team to an MP commander might save enough space to get back up your deep strikers who could definitely use some drones to extend thier shooting window (maybe some XV-9's).

Excited to see this list develop!
Kill Magnus!!!!
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 261

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#6 » Jan 11 2018 06:36

Arka0415 wrote:Have you actually used it in games yet?

Edit: Also, how does Exemplar of Kauyon help Longstrike? Isn't he always going to be on the move?

I played one game game and won with a similar 2k list (it had a team of pathfinders as the only difference) and it tabled the mechanized Orc list by turn 3-4 about two weeks ago. It was basically the same list. Was good for No Mercy, only units I lost was A FB crisis team a kroot hound squad. Landing commanders on buildings to resist getting into CC was broken. Exemplar of Kauyon was pretty neat with longstrike and I don't expect him to be on the move much. If he has to move, I still expect a turn-3 of Kauyon shooting at worst. I figure if his range keeps him alive for the life of the game than he will make up his points by not being destroyed so quick. I only tried SMS so I don't know if gundrones will be good enough. I get to test this list Sunday against the mechanized orc player. I want to see if taking a useless VT harms my list too much.I am contemplating turning the shield drones into gundrones for better anti-infantry.

I have killed magus with a different 1500 point list (didn't run stormsurges) this last weekend but I was tabled on turn 4. That list had a FB crisis team, flamer suits, stealth suits, 1 fb com, 2 cib com. I killed magus the turn before I was tabled. The 1500 point non-stormsurge list did well by tabling a 7 tank Astra militarum on turn 4. And it beat a second Astra militarum with an objective race. That 1500 point list had zero pathfinders teams (note for Gunrock). Also I expect another magus player by April: My buddy who got me into the game plays chaos and has Magus in the making with an estimated completion date before April.

I played a similar 2 Stormsurge list @ 1500 points and didn't do so well at a different specialized event around XMAS. The event had some objectives that "exploded". The kroot hounds were a funny bomb squad unit though. It had only one commander back then. It lost too the LGS chaos player(tabled), an eldar player( so many negs to hit rolls), and a different (chaos ?) player. Since then I added two commanders two my aresonal. I think 1500 points was too small to field double 'surge.
-----------
@gunrock. Great analysis. My markerlights are low. My crisis team is all I have for this. The markerlights are protected for the turn I need them by being in reserve. I love pathfinders as well but I was having trouble fitting them in with a double stormsurge package. If I cut long strike I could but I would lose out on range (unless I switch to pulse driver setup on the stormsurges). I am hoping I don't need to overcharge my commanders so much with the additional heavy armor support I have in my list. If I do have to overcharge them it's okay. I have great wound counters and the D3 dice I bought help make taking care of that process way easier. Being a character also makes it hard too quickly eliminate wounded comanders so I'm not worried. I have considered and tweaked MP commanders back and forth into the list. I like the idea of CIb commanders to help address my lack of anti infantry weakness. They also should serve as a decent distraction unit.

Edit: Updated shield drones to gundrones. Stormsurge's are great antiinfantry but lack mobility. The extra gundrones will probably be more useful.

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 261

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#7 » Jan 14 2018 09:44

New updates
++ Outrider Detachment [249pts] ++
Longstrike(WL=Kauyon) [201]: 2Drone, Rail, 2 Seeker
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound
Kroot Hounds [16pts]: 4x Kroot Hound

++ Super-Heavy Auxiliary Detachment [496pts] ++
Stormsurge [496pts]: 2xBurst, PDC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

++ Supreme Command Detachment [1255pts] ++
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x gun Drone
Commander [154pts]: (ATS), 3x CIB, 2x gun Drone
Commander*(PEN)*[ 172]: 3x MP/ats, 2xgun drone
XV8 Crisis [279pts]: 8x Plasma ,(1Dc), 6marker
Stormsurge [496pts]: 2xBurst, PDC, (Shield, VT, ATS)

Total: 2000 points 5CP
______________________&
I tried out the missile pod commander and he was fantastic. I tried Plasma on my crisis suits and I actually liked it a lot. The purpose of the plasma team is for marker light or support. Being at a longer-range gave them way more survivability and they lasted at least two turns minimum in both games I played today. One game they actually lasted all four turns which is great. They are also significantly cheaper with the plasma loadout.
The storm surges were fantastic and I actually kind of like the pulse driver Cannon despite it looking bad on math hammer. While it statistically should be shooting way less than the pulse Blaster Cannon, the fact that it always has range on something was nice and I actually think it may be worth the extra 50 points overall. I don't see it going anywhere anytime soon for me. Going against orks, the velocity tracker did nothing which was the point of me testing out the support system to see how much of a downside it would be against a army does nothing. Stimulant injectors would have been helpful on game 2 ,but game 2 I did an intentional poor placement to give the orc friend a fighting chance to win (that he would have to still work for and earn). The improper setup was having the stormsurges a good 3ft spaced out from each other. The proper setup is having this to stormsurges next to each other with Longstrike close enough to give greater good coverage behind them with kroot hound wrap (lost only 80 points in the 4 turn game;he was tabled)

I super pleased with my list. Dealing 19 mortal wounds on turn 1(60" range); I no longer fear the Magnus player in my area.
Last edited by Lostroninsoul on Jan 14 2018 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Posts: 2613

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#8 » Jan 14 2018 10:14

Lostroninsoul wrote:I tried out the missile pod commander and he was fantastic. I tried Plasma on my crisis suits and I actually liked it a lot. The purpose of the plasma team is for marker light or support. Being at a longer-range gave them way more survivability and they lasted at least two turns minimum in both games I played today. One game they actually lasted all four turns which is great. They are also significantly cheaper with the plasma loadout.

Good to hear that the Missile Pod Commander worked out. By the way, what targets did the Plasma Rifle XV8s engage, and how did you use them? Risky deep strike at 12" range or more skirmish tactics?

Lostroninsoul wrote:The storm surges were fantastic and I actually kind of like the pulse driver Cannon despite it looking bad on math hammer. While it statistically should be shooting way less than the pulse Blaster Cannon, the fact that it always has range on something was nice and I actually think it may be worth the extra 50 points overall.

Yeah I don't think it's actually bad mathhammer-wise, it just costs a ton of points.

Lostroninsoul wrote:The proper setup is having this to stormsurges next to each other with Longstrike close enough to give greater good coverage behind them with fruit kroot wrap (lost only 80 points in the 4 turn game;he was tabled)

Does Longstrike really help with For the Greater Good though? He only offers 8 S5 shots and maybe a lucky hit with the submunition. He'll statistically kill one Ork in overwatch.

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Lostroninsoul
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Posts: 261

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#9 » Jan 14 2018 10:44

Image
I'm too lazy to do a battle report but here's a photo of turn 1, game 1.

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Lostroninsoul
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Posts: 261

Re: Lostroninsoul's 2k Cadre

Post#10 » Jan 14 2018 10:57

Arka0415 wrote:By the way, what targets did the Plasma Rifle XV8s engage, and how did you use them? Risky deep strike at 12" range or more skirmish tactics?

They are best used as skirmish tactics. Mostly 8 shots. The game I intentionally 'threw away' with poor deployments, they last two turns (generally other load outs last 1-2 turns, so far they last 2-4 turns, big improvement). They didn't have many juicy targets to skirmish, but they are long range markerlight support for mortal wounds. Staying alive past that turn is a bonus.

Arka0415 wrote:Yeah I don't think it's actually bad mathhammer-wise, it just costs a ton of points.


I think it is worth taking an 4'x6' maps or 1850 points. Smaller games should [consider] running PBC.


Arka0415 wrote:Does Longstrike really help with For the Greater Good though? He only offers 8 S5 shots and maybe a lucky hit with the submunition. He'll statistically kill one Ork in overwatch.


It helps minorly for greater good. The main advantage is the stormsurges draw a lot of heavy weaponry. This saves longstrike from loads of damage. In the picture above he did 2seeker missles, Railgun for 6 damage +2 additional mortal wounds onto the Stompa.

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