[Article Submission] 7th Edition XV8 Names

A review of past Tactics by commanders during the First, Second, Third & Fourth Phase Expansion.
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Harlequin2
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[Article Submission] 7th Edition XV8 Names

Post#1 » Apr 24 2013 06:28

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Welcome to the great compilation thread of XV8 Crisis suit naming, classification, nomenclature and denominations! With the recent confirmation that our suits CAN take two weapons at a time, I thought it best to gather up all the information we have on suit names along with my own proposition for naming. So without further ado, let us begin:



[1] Weapon Hardpoint Introduction:

There are seven distinctive weapons which XV8 Crisis suits are named after. Two of them are special issue/experimental weapons and so can only be taken once (and not twin-linked). The others can be taken as many times wanted; bearing in mind only two weapons can fire per turn and the average XV8 has a maximum capacity of three weapons. Here is the list:

Cyclic Ion Blaster: Ion
Airbursting Fragmentation Projector: Hail
Flamer: Soul / Heatwave / 4
Missile Pod: Fire / Deathrain / 7
Burst Cannon: Storm / Cloudburst / 5
Fusion Blaster: Forge / Sunforge / 8
Plasma Rifle: Knife / Burning Eye / 6

The first word is the name that the weapon corresponds to for mixed weapon suits, and XV8s that only possess one weapon. The second word is the name that the weapon corresponds to if the weapon is the only type possessed and either twin-linked, doubled or a mixture of the two. The number at the end is the weapon’s strength value and this is used to denote when the weapon is twin-linked or doubled.



[2] Mixed Weapon Hardpoints:

Much of the time, two different weapons will be taken together. Naming one of these XV8s is easy. The list in section [1] is in order. So, if you were to have a Crisis Suit with a Missile Pod and a Burst Cannon, the Pod is above the Cannon. As such, the name would be ‘Firestorm’. However, if you were to switch the Burst Cannon out for a Flamer, then the order would change, making the name ‘Soulfire’.

If twin-Linking a particular weapon, then add ‘-#’ after the name, with # being the number next to the weapon you want twin-linked. For example, a ‘Fireknife’ with a twin-linked Plasma Rifle would be ‘Fireknife-6’. If a Shas’o wanted to twin-link both weapons, then the number after the name would simply use both numbers, as in ‘Fireknife-67’, with the smallest number first.

If you choose to take two of a particular kind of weapon for the XV8, then simply add a ‘D’ before that particular number to identify that it’s been doubled. For instance, a ‘Soulforge’ with two Fusion Blasters would be ‘Soulforge-D8’. If a Shas’o wanted two of each weapons then the name would use both numbers with a ‘D’ before them both, as in ‘Soulforge-D48’, with the smallest number first. If the Shas’o decided to twin-link the Fusion Blaster instead, then the ‘8’ would appear before the ‘D’, leading to 'Soulforge-8D4'

For various configurations, there are different names to those provided from the list of words in section [1]. For all of these names, the last one is the most popularly used but it mainly comes down to personal preference.
Forgeknife/Helios: Fusion Blaster + Plasma Rifle
Ionknife/Centurion/Aurora: Cyclic Ion Blaster + Plasma Rifle
Bladestorm/Blinding Spear: Plasma Rifle + Burst Cannon
Soulfire/Soul Cleanse: Flamer + Missile Pod
Stormforge/Sunstorm: Burst Cannon + Fusion Blaster
Hailstorm/Thunderstorm: Airbursting Fragmentation Projector + Burst Cannon

Circles of Fio Caste on various Septs often have other names for their configurations that are not known to the rest of the Empire. If your gaming group has a preferred name for a load out, then simply use that instead. If online however, use these names. This shows the Earth Caste going to a convention and needing to relay his latest modifications to the representatives from other remote Septs.



[3] Single-Type Weapon Hardpoints:

If the XV8 only has a single weapon, then it uses the first word from section [1] for the corresponding weapon, with the word ‘-suit’ at the end. For example, an XV8 with a single Fusion Blaster would be a ‘Forgesuit’, whilst an XV8 with a single Flamer would be a ‘Soulsuit’.

There are also Crisis suits that only equip one type of weapon, but take multiples of this weapon, twin-linked, doubled or both in combination. These XV8s use the second word from section [1] to signify a battlesuit with a single type of weapon that’s twin-linked. To apply further distinction, add the weapon's number '-#' to the end of the name to signify that the weapon is indeed twin-linked, such as 'Cloudburst-5' or 'Sunforge-8'

If you decide to take two of the same weapon (rather than twin-link as above), then simply add a ‘-D’ to the end of the name instead of the number, such as ‘Deathrain-D’. If you want to take two weapons AND twin-link one of them, then add a the weapon number at the end, such as ‘Deathrain-D7’ for example. If a Shas’o wants to take two of the same weapon AND twin-link both of them, then just add a ‘-X’ to the end of the name, like ‘Deathrain-X’.



[4] Other Weapon Variations:

Most three weapon configurations have gone un-named as they were usually unpopular before multi-trackers became standard. Naming is at the owner’s discretion except for one particular setup below:
Sunfire: Plasma Rifle + Missile Pod + Fusion Blaster

The best suggestion is to use the names from section [1] in the order given. For example, an XV8 with a Flamer, Burst Cannon and Missile Pod would be called a 'Soulfirestorm', whereupon any twin-linking can be shown by apply the weapon number to the end '-#', such as 'Soulfirestorm-5' if the Burst Cannon was twin-linked. Four weapons are also possible on a Shas’o. As before, this is mostly down to the user to find an interesting name to befit the unique loadout.

It is possible to have no weapons at all on an XV8. In this scenario, the battlesuit is called a 'Supportsuit', although some Fio caste in the Coreward Marches call it a 'Commsuit'. A particular loadout where a Shas'vre possesses both a Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite and a Command and Control Node, is called a 'Raven'. A Shas'o with both a Multi-Spectrum Sensor Suite and a Command and Control Node, is instead called a 'Kingfisher'.



[5] XV8 Teams:

Naturally, not even Crisis suit is going to be a 'Monat' (the Tau for a single suit on it's own). Chances are that you'll have a team of two or three working together, and whilst these names above are for individual suits, it can get confusing if trying to describe an entire team. To straightforwardly name a team, you can follow these simple guidelines:
- If a team is entirely comprised of the same suit, then call the team by that suit. For example, a team of three Fireknife-D6s would simply be called a 'Fireknife-D6' team.
- If a team has varying combinations of twin-linked and double weapons, then it uses the standard name. For example, a doubled up team of a Helios-8 and a Helios-6 would simply be a 'Helios' team.
- If a team is comprised of different weapons on each, then use the mixed name for the team with all of their weapons. For example, a team consisting of a Sunforge-8, a Burning Eye-D and a Deathrain-D7 would be called a 'Sunfire' team.

Most XV8 Teams use customised team names however, denoting the fact that they are a unique team and often contain specialised members with rare pieces of gear. For instance, the Fireknife-D6 team above, after many successes against the Tyranid horde, could be called a unique name like 'Bug Hunter' [Mal'kau] by it's Shas'o.



[6] Examples:

There are hundreds of builds for Crisis suits out there, and new ones are being made up every day. Below are just a slice of this, whilst also providing examples on how to use this guide.
Helios: Plasma Rifle + Fusion Blaster. This enables the Crisis suit to engage both heavily armoured infantry and heavy armour quite effectively.
Thunderstorm-5: Airbusting Fragmentation Projection + Twin-linked Burst Cannon. The ultimate combination in dealing with numerous weakly armoured enemies.
Soulknife-D6: Two Plasma Rifles + Flamer. Whilst rapid fire range is needed to be optimal, the Flamer provides a deterrent to being charged.
Soulsuit: Flamer. The Wall of Flame rule means that the Flamer is a useful anti-charging weapon with the other hard-points freed for support systems.
Burning-Eye-6: Twin-linked Plasma Rifle. This Crisis suit is dedicated to making it's armour penetrating shots hit, assisting it's mediocre BS3.
Deathrain-D: Two Missile Pods. The maneuverability of an XV8 and the long range of it's Pods ensures that few targets will be out of reach.
Sunforge-D8: Fusion Blaster + Twin-linked Fusion Blaster. Two melta shots against tanks are quite popular, the twin-link adding extra assurance.

Below we have a few Shas'o XV8 names, who are special in that they have the capacity for four weapons. Naming is slightly more complicated, but is befitting of their rare and unique natures.
Fireforge-8D7: Two Missile Pods + Twin-linked Fusion Blaster. A build that ensures a melta hit on a vehicle, when it gets close enough.
Fireforge-D78: Two Missile Pods + Two Fusion Blasters. A more versatile build that can switch between ranges as is required of it.
Fireforge-78: Twin-linked Missile Pods + Twin-linked Fusion Blasters. An accurate build that is centered around making the rounds hit.
Cloudburst-X: Two Twin-linked Burst Cannons. A strong build that puts out an astonishing eight twin-linked shots, usually at BS5.

Of course, these are just examples. It's up to you, Shas'o, to find the best load-out that suits your playstyle. And when you do, I hope that you can find a name befitting for their excellence.
For the Greater Good! :evil:



Thanks to Straylight and Iceplague for giving the main ideas behind the Tau names.
Thanks to O'Noes for giving the 'Kingfisher' load-out name.
And a final thanks to the rest of the community for their assistance and support.
Last edited by Harlequin2 on May 28 2013 07:14, edited 35 times in total.

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Bitterman
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#2 » Apr 24 2013 06:42

While I follow the logic, conceptually the difference between (for example) Fireknife-6 and Sunforge-1 bothers me. Clearly if you're totally familiar with the naming rules there can be no confusion, but overloading a numeral to mean two completely different things that changes with context is unfortunate. Personally, I always need to look up pretty much any name other than Fireknife and Deathrain to make sure it means what I think it means... it's even more of a struggle for newcomers to Tau (of whom I suspect there will be many more now). Can we find a simpler way to express the option of taking only one, non-twin-linked weapon? (Though I suspect it won't be any more common than three or four different weapons).

Also - what about the possibility of taking zero weapons? It's not as silly as it sounds, the signature systems that let the model surrender its own shooting in order to boost that of the unit means it's quite conceivable that you might occasionally not bother with a weapon at all. (I can see such a build being popular in Zone Mortalis games for example).

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Harlequin2
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#3 » Apr 24 2013 07:04

Bitterman wrote:While I follow the logic, conceptually the difference between (for example) Fireknife-6 and Sunforge-1 bothers me. Clearly if you're totally familiar with the naming rules there can be no confusion, but overloading a numeral to mean two completely different things that changes with context is unfortunate. Personally, I always need to look up pretty much any name other than Fireknife and Deathrain to make sure it means what I think it means... it's even more of a struggle for newcomers to Tau (of whom I suspect there will be many more now). Can we find a simpler way to express the option of taking only one, non-twin-linked weapon? (Though I suspect it won't be any more common than three or four different weapons).


Hm. I get what you're saying. Maybe if we just put on a '-suit' to the end of the single-weapon classification? For example, an XV8 with only one fusion blaster (which I can imagine is quite a good budget tank popper) would simply be a 'Forgesuit'. Similarly, a model with just one flamer (perhaps it takes two support systems) would be a 'Soulsuit'. Would this work?

Bitterman wrote:Also - what about the possibility of taking zero weapons? It's not as silly as it sounds, the signature systems that let the model surrender its own shooting in order to boost that of the unit means it's quite conceivable that you might occasionally not bother with a weapon at all. (I can see such a build being popular in Zone Mortalis games for example).


I've heard quite a lot about these tactics actually, but the logistics over naming something like that (especially with four options) are just mindbogglingly-mad! In these cases, I'd propose just calling them a 'Supportsuit'. Does that also suffice?

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Tastyfish
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#4 » Apr 24 2013 07:12

I think we've got two many options now for the naming system to really be all that useful, especially as a lot of the support systems can quite radically change the way a team will work, plus according to the WD background, it's the teams that have configuration names - not the individual suits.

With the recent ruling regarding dual and triple weapons, I could also easily see a move towards more specialised suits within a generalist squad (2 dual plasma + 1 deathrain with target lock replacing the traditional 3 Fireknives). In this case I think naming the individual suits isn't going to make things any shorter or clearer.

I do like the minor abbreviations though, and think that this would be the model to take for the three weapon suits - there's already too many names as it is, so I don't think we really want more unless it's a very specific build. So a three weapon suit would use the old names, but then have the third weapon as just the initial afterwards - Cloudburst D-MP, or even Fireknife-FB, for instance.

This also gives some insight into what the primary role of the suit/team will be (it's for shooting plasma, but they've also got a missile pod just in case).
In the case of the generalist team made up of specialist individuals mentioned earlier, you could even carry this idea further and have the team be referred to as a Fireknife 2/1 (or 1/2 depending on where the split between Burning Eye-D/Deathrain-D suits falls).

I think zero weapon suits (with MSS and C&C) seem to be being referred to as 'Comms' suits fairly often, mostly in Farsight threads.

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Harlequin2
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#5 » Apr 24 2013 07:28

Tastyfish wrote:I think we've got two many options now for the naming system to really be all that useful, especially as a lot of the support systems can quite radically change the way a team will work.
Plus according to the WD background, it's the teams that have configuration names - not the individual suits. With the recent ruling regarding dual and triple weapons, I could easily see a move towards more specialised suits within a generalist squad (2 dual plasma + 1 deathrain with target lock replacing the traditional 3 Fireknives). In this case I think naming the individual suits isn't going to make things any shorter or clearer.


You've got a fair point on that front, but I think it would simply be easier to state "I've got two Burning Eye-Ds with a Deathrain-D thrown in there" rather than get tied up with even more numbers as you try and divide your team.

Tastyfish wrote:I like the minor abbreviations though, and think that this would be the model to take for the three weapon suits - there's already too many names as it is, so I don't think we really want more unless it's a very specific build. So a three weapon suit would use the old names, but then have the third weapon as just the initial afterwards - Cloudburst D-MP, or even Fireknife-FB, for instance.

This also gives some insight into what the primary role of the suit/team will be (it's for shooting plasma, but they've also got a missile pod just in case). In the case of the generalist team made up of specialist individuals mentioned earlier, you could even carry this idea further and have the team be referred to as a Fireknife 2/1 (or 1/2 depending on where the split between Burning Eye-D/Deathrain-D suits falls).


Third weapon thing can work, but this is just a fluffy way to throw out your team's names, and there aren't really any naming laws for three/four weapon suits. I can always throw in that recommendation for the "add '-FB' to the end if you want a fusion" though.

Tastyfish wrote:I think zero weapon suits (with MSS and C&C) seem to be being referred to as 'Comms' suits fairly often, mostly in Farsight threads.


Sounds much better than 'Supportsuit'. I'll make the change.

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shasocastris
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#6 » Apr 24 2013 08:32

I generally like the ideas for the names. It reflects both the history of the various weapon configurations as well as the necessity to adapt to the new ways of configuring crisis suits.

Also, I support the idea of calling one weapon suit 'soulsuit', etc. That's not a bad idea, and rather catchy.

As for the new complexity of suits, I'll remind everyone that this is all just a bit of clever jargon. If there is a complicated suit you want to discuss, spell out the wargear explicitly. The names were only ever for weapons. If you want to say I have a burning eye with a target lock, say that, rather than some new designation for target lock (or vectored retro-thrusters, etc). I don't see a need to name every combination of battlesuit weaponry and wargear. The weaponry I think is enough, especially since none of this is used in army list creation.

Cheers!

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Harlequin2
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#7 » Apr 24 2013 10:21

shasocastris wrote:I generally like the ideas for the names. It reflects both the history of the various weapon configurations as well as the necessity to adapt to the new ways of configuring crisis suits.

Also, I support the idea of calling one weapon suit 'soulsuit', etc. That's not a bad idea, and rather catchy.

As for the new complexity of suits, I'll remind everyone that this is all just a bit of clever jargon. If there is a complicated suit you want to discuss, spell out the wargear explicitly. The names were only ever for weapons. If you want to say I have a burning eye with a target lock, say that, rather than some new designation for target lock (or vectored retro-thrusters, etc). I don't see a need to name every combination of battlesuit weaponry and wargear. The weaponry I think is enough, especially since none of this is used in army list creation.

Cheers!


I agree. Whilst personally I'd prefer to just call loadouts CIB.PR.PR (for example), there's definitely something to be stated about the fluff value.

And I couldn't agree more on your last point.

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Bitterman
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#8 » Apr 24 2013 10:54

Harlequin2 wrote:I agree. Whilst personally I'd prefer to just call loadouts CIB.PR.PR (for example), there's definitely something to be stated about the fluff value.


Oh, that would be fantastic. It'd save me hours of headscratching and "wait, what was a Starforgekniferain again?".

But (and I guess it's understandable) the simple but not very catchy way is not popular...

abraxus
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#9 » Apr 24 2013 01:18

It seems like the original naming convention was developed well after the last codex came out and was initially based off the most popular builds, and then retro-actively applied to the less common/popular. With the all the newly possible combinations the new book is offering, waiting to see what builds prove the most popular might make a new convention easier.

A suggestion would be to give every weapon a distinct name (already done) and it's TL version a synergistic name:
Examples
Weapon --------------- Single ---------- Twin-Linked
Plasma Rifle ----------- Fire ------------ Burn(ing)
Fusion Blaster -------- Sun ------------ Helio(s)
Missile Pod ------------ Knife ----------- Rain
Flamer -----------------
Burst Cannon --------- Storm --------- Torrent
Cyclic Ion Cannon
AFP

I left off the ones I couldn't remember (and I may not be 100% on the others)

So using something like this with a "convention" of always putting the TL weapon first:
"Burning Sun" would be a twin-linked Plasma Rifle with a Fusion Blaster, whereas "Helio Fire" would be a Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster with a Plasma Rifle

The addition of so many support and signature systems adds another lvl of complexity. What if we just assign a number to these (support) and only use this when list building? If a 1 was an EWO, then my commander with a TL_PR and a FB would be a "Burning Sun 1", but would just be referred to short hand as a "Burning Sun".

We could then use non-Alphanumeric characters to indicate the Signature Systems *, @, #, etc. and in normal use "speaking" would again just leave them off. Written my commander above with a NwSJ would be a "Burning Sun 1*", but when speaking, would just be referred to (again) as a "Burning Sun".

Just some food for thought

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Iceplague
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#10 » Apr 24 2013 02:30

When I've now read main post in this topic through a few times, I like where it's heading so far. But I still ain't a fan of the simple "+" designating system, since a "+" is just indicating it has a 3rd weapon of some sort, not mentioning what weapon exactly and the role of the suit can be anything. But the suggestion from Tastyfish on just simply adding the shortened weapon name to the already known weapon configuration makes perfect sense.

As going through with examples again, to further illustrate the idea:
Deathrain = 2 Missile Pods, Twin-Linked
Deathrain-D = 2 Missile Pods, not Twin-linked
Deathrain-MP = 3 Missile Pods, 1 Twin-Linked MP & 1 Single MP
Deathrain-D-MP = 3 Missile Pods, 3 Single MP's

I think it quite well gives the general meaning and purpose of the suit. Not that anyone might want to have 3 single Missile Pods, but just as an example, if ever so stupid/silly.
But this way you get a better understanding on what weapons the suit actually has, instead of just adding a "+". And bearing in mind on how organized Tau generally seem to be, the "+" would seem a bit chaotic, specially in a military structure as it gives no indication on what weapon is wielded in that hardpoint. So my suggestion is to go with Tastyfish's idea and add the weapon initials to further clarify the suits role.
The weapon initials can also be applied to the already known 2 different weapon names. As in Forgeknife-MP, thus we don't need to create a new name, but to just add the weapon initials to the already known name, and suddenly we know what weapons and role it has. Using the name Forgeknife as it's primary funktion, and -MP as it's support role in the unit.

An example to illustrate my point:
Having a squad of 3 crisis by just using the "+".
Deathrain-D+
Soulstorm+
Cloudburst-D+

Compared to, 3 crisis with the weapon initials.
Deathrain-D-BC
Soulstorm-MP
Cloudburst-D-MP

In my eyes, much easier to see that the unit has 2 roles, one is dealing with hordes, but that they also have Missile Pods to counter light vehicles or other targets at longer range. With only using "+", their roles can be misleading or confusing, as the units full intent is not shown.

Here we could further spawn the idea on having the support systems mixed into this as well. As in Deathrain-D-TL = 2 Missile pods with Target Lock. Even though this makes perfect sense and logic in my head, but this might be taking it too far? Thoughts?

Also like the idea on the names on the 0 weapon suits. Really good.
Same with 1 weapon suits. Good job!

/J-J

abraxus
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#11 » Apr 24 2013 02:56

You're right , I totally forgot that, but thats what the lovely word "Dual" or "Twin" is for :)

TwinFire Knife
or
DualKnife Fire

Put the doubled system first.

This just leaves instances of 3 separate unique systems on one suit... and I have no ideas for that other then determining what, if any, or these configuations are actually viable and then naming that config something special. I can't see to many of these really being worth their costs, other than maybe a SunFireEmber (FB, PR, FL) or a SunFireKnife (FB, PR, MP).

Assuming that only 1-3 "builds" is really proven to be worth it, we can come up with special designations for those at a later date/time.

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nekomata
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#12 » Apr 24 2013 03:09

I still see the linking as a pilot setting, and it really is getting silly to change a suit designation depending on pilot settings. To use the car analogy, it would be changing the model number just because you've tuned the engine. I do however like the idea that the name depends on the number of weapons on there, so maybe this can be extended to 3 weapons? (I wouldn't worry about the potential for 4 weapons on a Shas'o - such layouts will be unusual enough to just think of them as custom configs)

If we look at plasma rifles, 1 is Knife and 2 is Burn(ing), so 3 might be Blaze:
- A 3 plasma rifle suit may be called "Star Blaze".
- A 2 plasma rifle suit is already called "Burning Eye".
- A 2 plasma, 1 missile pod suit can be designated "Burning Fire" (I'm going by the guide in the Primers that "Fire" is a missile pod).
- A 1 plasma, 1 missile pod suit is the famous "Fireknife".
- A 1 plasma, 1 missile pod, 1 burst cannon suit would be a "Fireknife Storm".

For configs with 2 or more of a given weapon, they can be said to be set to "linked" or "free".

Of course, the current naming scheme in the Primer already leads to confusing name trees (such as Fire being a missile pod, but Burning being dual plasma rifles). If rearrangement is an option (either under the guise of the Imperium's incompetence, or a Tau standardisation drive), the name trees could be made to fit together even better :)

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Harlequin2
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Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#13 » Apr 24 2013 03:20

abraxus wrote:It seems like the original naming convention was developed well after the last codex came out and was initially based off the most popular builds, and then retro-actively applied to the less common/popular. With the all the newly possible combinations the new book is offering, waiting to see what builds prove the most popular might make a new convention easier.

A suggestion would be to give every weapon a distinct name (already done) and it's TL version a synergistic name:
Examples
Weapon --------------- Single ---------- Twin-Linked
Plasma Rifle ----------- Fire ------------ Burn(ing)
Fusion Blaster -------- Sun ------------ Helio(s)
Missile Pod ------------ Knife ----------- Rain
Flamer -----------------
Burst Cannon --------- Storm --------- Torrent
Cyclic Ion Cannon
AFP

I left off the ones I couldn't remember (and I may not be 100% on the others)

So using something like this with a "convention" of always putting the TL weapon first:
"Burning Sun" would be a twin-linked Plasma Rifle with a Fusion Blaster, whereas "Helio Fire" would be a Twin-Linked Fusion Blaster with a Plasma Rifle

The addition of so many support and signature systems adds another lvl of complexity. What if we just assign a number to these (support) and only use this when list building? If a 1 was an EWO, then my commander with a TL_PR and a FB would be a "Burning Sun 1", but would just be referred to short hand as a "Burning Sun".

We could then use non-Alphanumeric characters to indicate the Signature Systems *, @, #, etc. and in normal use "speaking" would again just leave them off. Written my commander above with a NwSJ would be a "Burning Sun 1*", but when speaking, would just be referred to (again) as a "Burning Sun".

Just some food for thought


I quite like this idea, but the names I've put down aren't ones that I made up (apart from the numbers at the end and the legwork with the single-weapon stuff). My only worry is that people would be too used to the old names to accept 'Helio Fire' or some such. I know I'm having a hard time remembering what I wrote down! Still, if another people advocate your table then I'm all for it!
As for Signature Systems though, I don't want to touch that with a barge pole as the names would just get ridiculous. As someone else stated, the names were always to do with weaponry anyway.

Iceplague wrote:When I've now read main post in this topic through a few times, I like where it's heading so far. But I still ain't a fan of the simple "+" designating system, since a "+" is just indicating it has a 3rd weapon of some sort, not mentioning what weapon exactly and the role of the suit can be anything. But the suggestion from Tastyfish on just simply adding the shortened weapon name to the already known weapon configuration makes perfect sense.


Well the 'D+' is only for the single-weapon suits, in which case you'd know that it simply carries the maximum amount of that weapon on a standard XV8. Mixed weapon suits don't use a '+' at all and instead use numbers or 'D' to signify when something is twin-linked or doubled respectively. If you take a third weapon then you can mostly make up your own name (except for Sunfire) but like you and Tastyfish suggested, I recommended using '-WeaponInitials' at the end, such as 'Fireknife-FB'.

Iceplague wrote:As going through with examples again, to further illustrate the idea:
Deathrain = 2 Missile Pods, Twin-Linked
Deathrain-D = 2 Missile Pods, not Twin-linked
Deathrain-MP = 3 Missile Pods, 1 Twin-Linked MP & 1 Single MP
Deathrain-D-MP = 3 Missile Pods, 3 Single MP's

I think it quite well gives the general meaning and purpose of the suit. Not that anyone might want to have 3 single Missile Pods, but just as an example, if ever so stupid/silly.


I think it's a matter of taste. '-D+' instead of '-MP' works fine and is a naturally progression from just '-D'. I did leave out the 3 Missile Pod though because it's completely illogical. I'm pretty sure that anyone who reads this knows their Tau enough to not take it.

Iceplague wrote:But this way you get a better understanding on what weapons the suit actually has, instead of just adding a "+". And bearing in mind on how organized Tau generally seem to be, the "+" would seem a bit chaotic, specially in a military structure as it gives no indication on what weapon is wielded in that hardpoint. So my suggestion is to go with Tastyfish's idea and add the weapon initials to further clarify the suits role.
The weapon initials can also be applied to the already known 2 different weapon names. As in Forgeknife-MP, thus we don't need to create a new name, but to just add the weapon initials to the already known name, and suddenly we know what weapons and role it has. Using the name Forgeknife as it's primary funktion, and -MP as it's support role in the unit.

An example to illustrate my point:
Having a squad of 3 crisis by just using the "+".
Deathrain-D+
Soulstorm+
Cloudburst-D+

Compared to, 3 crisis with the weapon initials.
Deathrain-D-BC
Soulstorm-MP
Cloudburst-D-MP


But that's not it at all. A Double-Deathrain with a BC would cease to be a Deathrain as it has a weapon other than a Missile Pod. It'd become a 'Firestorm' and with exactly the same configuration you gave, it'd be a 'Firestorm-7D'. There's no such thing as a 'Soulstorm+' so it would actually be a 'Soulstorm-MP' if you wanted the Missile Pod. Lastly, the 'Cloudburst-D+' you think it'd be named would actually be a 'Firestorm-5D'.

Basically, '-D+' is not a vague replacement for a weapon, but rather an indication of a twin-link AND solitary version of the same weapon. Whilst the numbers such as '5D' ARE a bit vague, they can be learned and are in accordance to the fluff and current nomenclature anyway.

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FireTrident
Gue
Posts: 106

Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#14 » Apr 24 2013 05:03

Not to be a bummer, but I personally feel that the days of Crisis Suit names are over.

And as much as I will miss that, I think that it is for the best. One of the problems that I had with the naming conventions was that they really ended up being unit names, as very rarely did anyone kit suits out differently (some were done so for old wound allocation, but they tended to be subtle manipulations, not fundamentally different weapons). This new era may very likely see teams consisting of completely different suits. And I believe that it will be a nice change of pace for the army, as well as make us feel at home in the current power levels of 6th edition.

Perhaps there will e a new naming convention to describe entire teams (for instance; fire knife team meaning Dual Plasma Rifles/Counterfire Defense Systems + Dual Missile Pods/Target Lock)

But honestly, my personal hope is to see the old names come back to life in future Special Character incarnations, weather that be from Forgeworld... or 7th edition. Maybe, just maybe, there might even be room for Commander Firetrident lol (three missile pods for the win!)

So now that we have Dual weapon suits, I feel it is extremely likely that people will just refer to their suits by the weapon name. Burst cannon Squad. Plasma Rifle squad with Precise shots. Etc. The names originally make it easy to tell someone quickly what you had if it was a popular set up, I don't believe it was ever intended to get this intricate.

All that said, name away. Remember, this is your hobby, and not anyone elses, and I will be more than happy to learn the system so I know what other people are talking about.

For the Greater Good
Codex Tau Federation

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Straylight
Por
Posts: 162

Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#15 » Apr 24 2013 06:02

FireTrident wrote:Not to be a bummer, but I personally feel that the days of Crisis Suit names are over.
Speak for yourself. I intend to keep using them.




-- To clarify a point, the "D+" nomenclature I suggested in the FAQ thread is specific to suits that carry only one weapon type, and refers to a suit that carries one twin-linked weapon and one single weapon of the same type.

-- In keeping with the "storm" theme, I vote we refer to a Burst Cannon-only suit as the Typhoon.

-- I think dual-twin-linked Commanders are going to be rare enough that we can give them unique names. The ability to crack off four twin-linked BS5 plasma rifle shots per turn is mean enough that it deserves to be called something special.

-- ...On that note, I vote we call a TL-PR, TL-MP Commander the Holy Avenger. It seems a logical upgrade from "fireknife".

-- Don't we already have a designation for the AFP; "Thunder"? That said, I'd like to see "Ion" renamed. We could use "Hail" for that.

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Harlequin2
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 174

Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#16 » Apr 24 2013 06:21

FireTrident wrote:Not to be a bummer, but I personally feel that the days of Crisis Suit names are over.


Eh. If I'm with mates then I'll just say "Oh yeah, it has a twin-linked Fusion Blaster and a Plasma Rifle". If I'm writing fluff though, I'd say "Shas'vre Ol'Nan leaped forward in his Helios-8 Battlesuit". Hell, if I'm writing an army list, I'll throw in the names for a laugh.


Straylight wrote:-- To clarify a point, the "D+" nomenclature I suggested in the FAQ thread is specific to suits that carry only one weapon type, and refers to a suit that carries one twin-linked weapon and one single weapon of the same type.

-- In keeping with the "storm" theme, I vote we refer to a Burst Cannon-only suit as the Typhoon.

-- I think dual-twin-linked Commanders are going to be rare enough that we can give them unique names. The ability to crack off four twin-linked BS5 plasma rifle shots per turn is mean enough that it deserves to be called something special.

-- ...On that note, I vote we call a TL-PR, TL-MP Commander the Holy Avenger. It seems a logical upgrade from "fireknife".

-- Don't we already have a designation for the AFP; "Thunder"? That said, I'd like to see "Ion" renamed. We could use "Hail" for that.


-- That's exactly that it is currently :smile:

-- Cloudburst still works as 'stormy'. It was also a recurring name on other forums. I'd like the aim of this to be names that can translate to other areas, but if enough people want Typhoon, then I'm all for it.

-- Burning Eye-X (also known as "Terminator's Bane") sounds cool enough.

-- I'll add that to alternate names :biggrin:

-- As it happened, Thunder AND Hail were AFP designations. However, it turns out that only one particular loadout actually uses the 'Thunder' prefix. As such, I've put it as an alternate name rather than an actually core name. Ion too is also a widely recognized designation, as much as I'd prefer to call it something like 'Shock'.

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E'nigma
Shas
Posts: 416

Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#17 » Apr 24 2013 08:20

I was talking with one of my friends and we thought for a Commander that "Solaris" would work for either 2x TL FB or 2x TL PR. I lean more for it to be the FB as a lone Fusion Blaster is known a "Forge."

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Lyi'ot
Por'O
Por'O
Posts: 2730

Re: [Article Submission] New Crisis Suit Names

Post#18 » Apr 24 2013 08:45

The major problem with naming any new suit builds is that there's no authority behind them. The old suit names came from an article on the Games Workshop website, and the 4th edition codex did a good job building on the idea of unique suit builds. But any suit builds we come up with will simply be the product of this site -- and not even the entire site, just a member or two. Making new names out of whole cloth threatens to divide the community by introducing a specialized language not shared by everyone.

Furthermore, the old names were suppose to be a convenient shorthand. New names only complicate matters. "What's that '-D' mean again?" "What's a '-8'?"

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