XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Panzer
Shas'La
Posts: 1823

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#11 » Jun 03 2017 06:08

Ah Lord of War also needs an additional Detachment so if you agreed on a Detachment limit it might not be possible to bring one that easily anyway.

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MKJump
Shas'Saal
Posts: 104

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#12 » Jun 03 2017 06:14

There's me thinking the stormsurge is the coolest model we have hahaha. I look the look of that thing, reminds of one of the Arms Forts from Armoured Core! The detachment limit can be an issue but you should build accordingly. All my lists I've been working on are structured: Battalion Det, Outrider Det and then a LoW Det.

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555ea
Shas'Saal
Posts: 27

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#13 » Jun 03 2017 06:31

Atzilla wrote:The days of goodly Math is went, two :biggrin:
Guess you just mixed up most likely outcome and average outcome.


For future reference, the rule of thumb for dice average is (highest + lowest value)/2
Or, since lowest is 1 most of the time, highest/2+0.5

BTT:
Problem with both is hammerhead and railtide is that missileside (esp. with ATS) is still a thing that exists

Some Math:

T7 Sv3+ target in 30"
3 XV88 w. 2xHYMP = 24*0.5 (bs4+)*0.5(t7)*2 (avgD3) *0.66 (Sv5+) = 8 Wounds
3 XV88 w. 2xSMS = 24*0.5 (bs4+)*0.33(t7)*0.5 (Sv4+) = 2 Wounds
8+2=10 Wounds

BTW Tau Plasma is S6 so your math should be:

T7 Sv3+ target in 24"
XV88 = 6 * 0.5 (bs4+) * 0.67 (t7) * 3.5 (avgD6) = 7.04 + 6 * 0.5 * 0.17 (mortal) = 7.04 + 0.51 = 7.55 wounds.
plasma = 6 * 0.5 (bs4+) * 0.33 (t7) * 0.83 (6+ sv) = 0.82 wounds.
7.55 + 0.82 = 8.37 wounds.

Against a Sv2+ target the railguns will come out on top, against everything else the missileside will be more versatile.
Granted, an ATS MissileSide is 210 Points but that's well spent imho


You are rounding everything up, it's 7.92+1.98 = 9.9 wounds :D

The problem with misslesides is their cost. 3 of them are 630 points, vs 495, 135 is a lot. Furthermore, they are 630/10=63 points per wound and railsides are 495/8.37=59.14.

What do you think of rocket drones? They are highly effective being cheaper than entire missile pod. Maybe we should mix a rocket+shield per broadside? And then put a drone controller in a single one.

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Atzilla
Shas'Saal
Posts: 51

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#14 » Jun 03 2017 06:53

No rounding here :D just to lazy to type fractions.
24*1/2=12
12*1/2=6
6*2=12
12*2/3=8 wounds for HYMP

24*1/2=12
12*1/3=4
4*1/2=2 wounds for SMS

Still not sure about Missile Drones, I cant find a good place for the controller. I would much rather have ATS.
Maybe in a team of three Broadside like this?

1 HRR + SMS + Drone Controller
2 HYMP + SMS + ATS
2 Missile drones

But a 3 Broadside team seems really expensive, I am not sure I will field this. Rather 2 Monat Missilesides...

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555ea
Shas'Saal
Posts: 27

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#15 » Jun 03 2017 07:20

Stormsurge with PBC, BCs, EWO, ATS. Considering his 6" he will mostly fire at 20-30 range.

T7 Sv3+ target in 30"

PBC = 6*0.67(bs3+)*0.67(t7)*0.5(4+) = 1.34 wounds
BCs = can't even shoot
CR = 14 (avg4d6)*0.67(bs3+)*0.33(t7)*0.5(4+) = 1.5 wounds.
total = 2.84 wounds

So at a large distance it's highly ineffective;

T7 Sv3+ target in 20"

PBC = 4*0.5(bs4+)*0.67(t7)*0.83(6+) *3 = 3.5 wounds
BCs = 8*0.5(bs3+)*0.33(t7)*0.5(4+) = 0.66
CR = 14 (avg4d6)*0.5(bs3+)*0.33(t7)*0.5(4+) = 1.15 wounds.
total = 5.31 wounds

T7 Sv3+ target in 10"

PBC = 2*0.5(bs4+)*0.83(t7)*6 = 4.98 wounds
BCs = 8*0.5(bs3+)*0.33(t7)*0.5(4+) = 0.66
CR = 14 (avg4d6)*0.5(bs3+)*0.33(t7)*0.5(4+) = 1.15 wounds.
total = 6.79 wounds

So it's always worse, and in fact, it's risky to go in a charge distance.

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Atzilla
Shas'Saal
Posts: 51

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#16 » Jun 03 2017 07:37

You forgot 0.66 wounds for the SMS

Had just calculated the same, I am shocked how low the output is.
Ok you can add 33% more wounds while standing still

With the Stormesurge I'd use ATS EWO and Stims, instead of shield gen to raise points efficiency

wighti
Shas
Posts: 24

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#17 » Jun 03 2017 07:40

I think both broadsides and crisis suits have a place if you build your list with them in mind. The amount of fire a single broadside puts out is amazing but it is, obviously hindered by cost and the fact that there's plenty of guns that will make short work of them.

My thinking is that what makes them playable are drones. Lots and lots of drones.

Think about it, each and every drone is an extra wound to a broadside or crisis suit. If you can cram in say, 50 drones those broadsides and other suits start to look increasingly durable. Things like lascannons, Hunter killer missiles, lances etc become almost useless since all they do is kill a drone, if it's in cover or is an shield drone even that becomes a chore.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
Posts: 1697

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#18 » Jun 03 2017 07:42

If might improve point efficienty, but durability will plummet in the age of ap modifiers.

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Atzilla
Shas'Saal
Posts: 51

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#19 » Jun 03 2017 07:47

boomwolf wrote:If might improve point efficienty, but durability will plummet in the age of ap modifiers.


vs AP 0 and AP 1 stims is better
vs AP 2 shield gen is slightly better
vs AP 3+ shield gen is way better

Which to use will depend on how many high AP weapons will actually be on the average table, and how many points are left in the list

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Peregrim
Shas'La
Posts: 125

Re: XV88 Broadsides in 8th ?

Post#20 » Jun 03 2017 03:05

Hammerhead's performance improves vs T8 compared to the Broadside. Similarly, HRR broadside does more wounds against T8 than HYMP.

Average wounds against T8 3+:
3 Hammerheads with Railgun: 7.15
3 Broadsides with HRR: 6.71
3 Broadsides with HYMP: 5.33

I didn't include secondary armaments (e.g. SMS, plasma) in these calculations.

Edit:
The hammerhead also performs better than the broadside against units which modify to-hit rolls (e.g. Imperium tanks which used smoke launchers, Harlequin transports).

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