The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Arka0415
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The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#1 » Nov 14 2017 10:51

When it comes to butchering hordes of light and medium infantry, or high wound-count models with poor saves, nothing in our Index beats a squad of XV8s with Flamers.

However, all-Flamer XV8s suffer from poor range (only 8") and due to this poor range they're unsuitable for Manta Strike unless supported by a Homing Beacon.

How do you use your all-Flamer XV8s? Do you prefer to use Homing Beacons, or do you deploy them normally then rush forward? Have you had any great, or terrible, experiences with these units? Let's talk tactics and find out the best way to use these fantastic, but tricky, units.

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Panzer
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#2 » Nov 14 2017 11:45

Well actually Flamer have a range of 9-14 inch considering that you can advance&shoot without a problem. Exceptions being the turn you come from reserves and the turn you might want to charge an enemy. :P

I always play them with 6 Shield Drones and that squad never disappointed me no matter whether I droppes them in via Homing Beacon or let them advance over the board.
My opponents keep getting annoyed by how durable they are with Shield Drones around and how large their footprint is which makes it really easy to hide characters behind, get on objectives, deny reserves or charge shooty units or transports parallel to flaming things to death. ^^
Last edited by Panzer on Nov 15 2017 02:20, edited 1 time in total.

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Kiran Tau
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#3 » Nov 15 2017 02:17

I have not used these yet, but for upcoming games Will i be deploying these by homing beacon, i have 2 stealth units and 3 QFCs so dependent og the match Will i be able to deploy the right tool :)... I really like Our stealth suits and almost alle my lists has these so the homing beacon is not far away...
Shas'el Au'taal Elan'B (Strong Shepherd)

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ErSe0831
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#4 » Nov 15 2017 03:44

Does the stealth unit(s) sometimes struggle with staying alive if you go second? How aggressive can you deploy? (Still haven't played much)

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Beerson
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#5 » Nov 15 2017 03:57

ErSe0831 wrote:Does the stealth unit(s) sometimes struggle with staying alive if you go second? How aggressive can you deploy? (Still haven't played much)

if you are worried about their survivability you can give them shield generator or two, and also put another suit in the squad

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GND
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#6 » Nov 15 2017 04:03

I have played Stealth Teams in 20+ games and have lost the entire squad turn 1 only once. And that took most of my opponents firepower + a lucky charge with Thunderhammer wielding unit (and that happened mostly a result of him having no other targets)

I find that a 4 man team provides a good balance of survivability and cost. Deploying them in cover, with some LOS blocking terrain to block some shooting, up the midfield should be enough for them to survive first turn. And with 8" + D6" move you should be able to drop the beacon in a good place for your flamer suits to arrive.

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Panzer
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#7 » Nov 15 2017 04:14

Yeah usually the enemy underestimates how much the Stealth Suits can tank (especially when in cover) so they tend to dedicate too little of their alpha strike towards killing them.
However you shouldn't rely on them surviving a turn 1 alpha strike. Especially if you pulled off the Flamer drop a few times against the same opponent. Fortunately the Crisis with Shield Drones are durable enough to drop regularly and tank a turn of shooting quite well. It's obviously not as good as being able to drop down and instantly flame something to hell but losing the Homing Beacon doesn't mean the Flamer squad is automatically useless. It's still a threat the enemy has to deal with somehow. ;)

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#8 » Nov 15 2017 04:49

I play them by dropping them in by Homing beacon indeed, and had 1 time in turn one my stealthsuits killed but also with shooting and a heavy hitting dread and wolf character charging in.

But I deploy them with 5 Gun drones and 1 Shield drone to give them even more punch. I let the flamers go first and usually they dissolve their target and then the gun drones are free to fire against the next closest unit or I make sure the last survivors do actually get killed. But with carefull positioning you can actually try and be closer to another unit to take potshots on.

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Haechi
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#9 » Nov 15 2017 08:50

I'm actually trying them for the first time this weekend in a tournament. Because it's an Eternal War tourney, yuk, and I already got cheated of a victory by these, I'm playing 2x6 Stealths to make sure I'll get the relic this time. So I took the opportunity to bring 2 beacons and 3 Flamer Crisis ^^.

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leo1925
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#10 » Nov 16 2017 07:44

Haechi wrote:I'm actually trying them for the first time this weekend in a tournament. Because it's an Eternal War tourney, yuk, and I already got cheated of a victory by these, I'm playing 2x6 Stealths to make sure I'll get the relic this time. So I took the opportunity to bring 2 beacons and 3 Flamer Crisis ^^.


3 units of flamer crisis or a unit of 3?

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Haechi
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#11 » Nov 17 2017 06:07

leo1925 wrote:
Haechi wrote:I'm actually trying them for the first time this weekend in a tournament. Because it's an Eternal War tourney, yuk, and I already got cheated of a victory by these, I'm playing 2x6 Stealths to make sure I'll get the relic this time. So I took the opportunity to bring 2 beacons and 3 Flamer Crisis ^^.


3 units of flamer crisis or a unit of 3?


A unit of 3.

Callumibob
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#12 » Nov 17 2017 08:26

3 flamers each or 2 flamers and ats? Something like low level nids with ats your auto hitting wounding on 2s then with the ap-1 they can't save? Or am I wrong I'm still fairly new

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Panzer
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#13 » Nov 17 2017 08:33

3 Flamer is basically always better than 2+ATS unless you're facing lots of 2+ armor...and then there are better weapons than Flamer anyway I'd say. ^^

The only reasons to play 2+ATS are:
- not enough bitz available
- not liking the look of 3 weapons on a Crisis Suit
- being a few points short and can't save them somewhere else

AngryMook
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#14 » Nov 17 2017 12:59

Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?

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Panzer
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#15 » Nov 17 2017 04:08

AngryMook wrote:Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?

Yeah same but with less minimum amount of hits and less maximum damage. Having 3 Flamer instead of 2+ATS is just more reliable and has a greater damage potential against MEQ units.

EDIT: cleaning up half-written sentences lol
Last edited by Panzer on Nov 17 2017 06:54, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#16 » Nov 17 2017 06:23

Panzer wrote:
AngryMook wrote:Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?

Yeah same but with less minimum amount of hits and less maximum damage due. Having 3 Flamer instead of 2+ATS is just more reliable and has a greater potential against MEQ units.


AngryMook wrote:Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?


Against MEQs, we're looking at 32 hits with no ATS or 21 hits with ATS.

W/ ATS: 21 hits > 10.5 wounds > 5.25 kills
W/o ATS: 32 hits > 16 wounds > 5.33 kills

3x Flamers is fractionally stronger, but also more reliable, has a higher maximum damage, and only costs 3pts/model more than 2x Flamers + ATS. Plus, having the extra Flamers is far stronger against hordes of things with Sv5+ and Sv4+.

Pottsey
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#17 » Nov 19 2017 04:09

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
AngryMook wrote:Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?

Yeah same but with less minimum amount of hits and less maximum damage due. Having 3 Flamer instead of 2+ATS is just more reliable and has a greater potential against MEQ units.


AngryMook wrote:Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?


Against MEQs, we're looking at 32 hits with no ATS or 21 hits with ATS.

W/ ATS: 21 hits > 10.5 wounds > 5.25 kills
W/o ATS: 32 hits > 16 wounds > 5.33 kills

3x Flamers is fractionally stronger, but also more reliable, has a higher maximum damage, and only costs 3pts/model more than 2x Flamers + ATS. Plus, having the extra Flamers is far stronger against hordes of things with Sv5+ and Sv4+.

What about if you factor in them ending up in close combat and having -1AP? What about when its bodyguards with an extra 1A and reroll 1's in CC?

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Panzer
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Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#18 » Nov 19 2017 06:15

Pottsey wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Yeah same but with less minimum amount of hits and less maximum damage due. Having 3 Flamer instead of 2+ATS is just more reliable and has a greater potential against MEQ units.


AngryMook wrote:Aren't 2 flamers+ats about the same vs MEQ as 3 flamers?


Against MEQs, we're looking at 32 hits with no ATS or 21 hits with ATS.

W/ ATS: 21 hits > 10.5 wounds > 5.25 kills
W/o ATS: 32 hits > 16 wounds > 5.33 kills

3x Flamers is fractionally stronger, but also more reliable, has a higher maximum damage, and only costs 3pts/model more than 2x Flamers + ATS. Plus, having the extra Flamers is far stronger against hordes of things with Sv5+ and Sv4+.

What about if you factor in them ending up in close combat and having -1AP? What about when its bodyguards with an extra 1A and reroll 1's in CC?

Basically no difference. If you can't hit things it doesn't matter how well you would penetrate their armor. ^^

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