[General] General Shadow Wars Discussion Thread

Discuss every aspect of the Shadow War stand-alone game.
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guges
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#37 » Apr 02 2017 05:52

That is very true, especially with Tau being extra useless in cc with 2nd edition 40k rules.

Having the +1 to hit at close range could be useful though. We'll have to wait and see after people get some games in.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#38 » Apr 02 2017 06:07

I think it's less usefull for us who can simply ignore cover modificators if a Markerlight guy can draw line of sight to the target (which is imo a VERY cool and satisfying way to use Markerlights in a Skirmish sized game!).

Anyway I posted the same 'problem' on BaC in the Shadow Wars thread and some people chipped in that you get an additional close combat attack when you have two CCWs, Pistol+CCW or two Pistols as long as you don't have a Basic, Special or Heavy weapon. No, you can't simply say 'I don't use it'. It's there so it handicaps you in close combat.
Another person also said there are Gunslinger rules in old Necromunda and since others said it's basically a copy&paste of the core rules it's to be expect that we can shoot with both pistols in Shadow Wars as well.

So while Pistols are still a very sub-par choice as backup weapon, I sure as hell will be building a gunslinger Pathfinder...there is always some madman in such teams who can pull of the most ridiculous feats. :D

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guges
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#39 » Apr 02 2017 07:46

They did keep the gunslinger rules which allow you to run and shoot two pistols at once if you have all the skills.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#40 » Apr 02 2017 08:06

Perfect! I'm already building a gunslinger Pathfinder. :D

btw. who had the glorious idea to give Tau not a single hand that can actually hold a pistol without some cutting and greenstuffing? Damn you GW!

Just to clarify though: really run&shoot both or move&shoot both? Running would be way too awesome. Being able to move 8" every turn and still have a good chance to pin an enemy sounds pretty strong. :P

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guges
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#41 » Apr 02 2017 08:53

There's one skill that lets you go akimbo and then there's another that lets you run and shoot at -1. There's a third skill which lets you get the same number of shots as you have attacks. If your A characteristic goes up, it can mean a real John Woo time in your life.

Almost done with my gunslinger Tau. Used the left pilot arm from the Stormsurge with the right pistol arm from the Firewarrior box. Keep in mind the Stormsurge pilot arms already look like they're almost carrying pistols already. He's looking pretty menacing. WIP pics soon.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#42 » Apr 02 2017 09:57

Oh so you need a skill to shoot with both pistols at the same time? Damn that's a bummer since it seems you can get a skill only when you roll a 5-9 with 2d6 after a game. :(

Right pistol arm from the firewarrior box? I must have missed that bit? o_O

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guges
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#43 » Apr 02 2017 10:32

5-9 is almost a 50% of getting a skill... that means you'll probably get a skill more often than anything else.

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guges
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#44 » Apr 02 2017 10:43

Here's my WIP page with my Tau gunslinger...

viewtopic.php?f=46&t=25415

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#45 » Apr 02 2017 11:04

guges wrote:5-9 is almost a 50% of getting a skill... that means you'll probably get a skill more often than anything else.

Almost 50% is very little for something to depend on though. ;)
My Gunslinger might be getting only one Pistol for now so I can buy the second once he got the SKill lol


Anyway a question for Necromunda veterans here: I downloaded the old rules and they say that you can use pistols in hand-to-hand combat. Does that mean you can actually use the shooting profile in hand-to-hand combat or only the usualy +1 attack for having two CCW weapons and no basic/special/heavy equipped?
Because that would make a gunslinger just so much more awesome and I'd really hope that it's still like that in Shadow Wars in that case. :D

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guges
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#46 » Apr 02 2017 11:20

I want to say that they just give you +1 a but I could be wrong.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#47 » Apr 02 2017 12:35

guges wrote:I want to say that they just give you +1 a but I could be wrong.

Please be wrong. I got contradicting statements over on BaC as well and none of those are 100% sure either. :D

Having two S5 attacks instead of two S3 attacks in melee would be really nice for a gunslinger Tau since he would be pretty close to the enemy anyway.

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#48 » Apr 02 2017 01:25

Having read the rules over several hours yesterday, can confirm that you don't get the +1 to hit while in melee and that you do otherwise use the pistol profile. I assume that that is why the pistol doesn't have the armor modification of the carbine. Tau would actually be quite handy in melee against the average dude if you could get lucky with a roll.

Now, of course, our ws of 2 will really hurt, as the average dudes seem to have 4s, so we're already 2 behind. The second pistol does grant us a second attack die, though, so that helps tremendously. If you can get the charge off, a pathfinder with a pair of pistols might just prove quite potent.

Or you could give them photon grenades and just expect to shoot more accurately than your average dudes up close with more shots (assuming you have gunslinger). Then, take the charge, allowing you to overwatch with your friendlies (supressive fire seems murky on if the target of the charge can overwatch, too, and I don't recall a rule giving it innately to a chargee) and still perform moderately well in melee thanks to the extra attack die.

Now, if it's against an actual melee specialist? You're still hosed baring really lucky rolls, I think. Against your average scout marine, though? I don't know the math, but I wouldn't discount a pathfinder set up this way from being able to win.

Real talk though, shas'ui losing their second attack stat hurts. I wanted my shas'ui set up this way, but I'll have to do it with just a normal pathfinder or a specialist (for the agility skill chart access).

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Panzer
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#49 » Apr 02 2017 01:43

Ko'Vash wrote:Having read the rules over several hours yesterday, can confirm that you don't get the +1 to hit while in melee and that you do otherwise use the pistol profile. I assume that that is why the pistol doesn't have the armor modification of the carbine. Tau would actually be quite handy in melee against the average dude if you could get lucky with a roll.

Now, of course, our ws of 2 will really hurt, as the average dudes seem to have 4s, so we're already 2 behind. The second pistol does grant us a second attack die, though, so that helps tremendously. If you can get the charge off, a pathfinder with a pair of pistols might just prove quite potent.

Or you could give them photon grenades and just expect to shoot more accurately than your average dudes up close with more shots (assuming you have gunslinger). Then, take the charge, allowing you to overwatch with your friendlies (supressive fire seems murky on if the target of the charge can overwatch, too, and I don't recall a rule giving it innately to a chargee) and still perform moderately well in melee thanks to the extra attack die.

Now, if it's against an actual melee specialist? You're still hosed baring really lucky rolls, I think. Against your average scout marine, though? I don't know the math, but I wouldn't discount a pathfinder set up this way from being able to win.

Real talk though, shas'ui losing their second attack stat hurts. I wanted my shas'ui set up this way, but I'll have to do it with just a normal pathfinder or a specialist (for the agility skill chart access).

I think I love you. :D

Yeah WS2 is a pain but considering a gunslinger would end up in melee sooner or later anyway (unless you really wreck face) it's better than nothing imo.
I'm hoping on the WS/BS +1 advance since both of it would actually be pretty good for a gunslinger Pathfinder....the hard part is to decide which one to take. :D

I honestly wouldn't bank on Overwatch. You have to declare it the turn before and it gives -1 to hit and another -1 if the target is charging. With our meh BS of 3 it's not very likely to hit a charging enemy with overwatch at all, even with two shots unfortunately.

My Shas'Ui will be rather boring and act like a true leader from behind the lines as spotter with his Markerlight. Enemies having to shoot at your closest dude helps a lot here. I still got him a pistol just in case though.

No, my gunslinger will be a 'normal' tropper that won't hurt too much if he overextends with his short ideal range. Shooting with (potentially) two shots with hopefully no cover modificator thanks to the Markerlight to pin enemies and maybe even down them with S5 and then to charge them next turn sounds really fun.

I wonder how I can make him even better. Anybody an idea what a Clip Harness and a Photo-visor do? :P

Agility skills is a good argument. Luckily we have no cap on how many specialists we can take in our team. I really need to know what skills are in those categories for further planning. :/

Oh and I might have made the mistake talking to my friends about a potential gunslinger and now my Skitarii buddy is thinking about building one himself....they have BS4, can ignore cover as well with a second dude with Omnispex, can ignore the first failed ammo roll per model and have WAY meaner pistols. >_>
Like one with S5 and d3 damage for the Leader or that one with +2 at short range S5 for his regular guys.... :eek:

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 139

Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#50 » Apr 02 2017 02:36

Clip harness allows you to clip yourself in place of you don't move. Normally if you are pinned while near a ledge, you could fall. This prevents that until you move. Good for a sniper on a vantage point.

Photo-visor allows you to drop the cover level of anyone the weirder is firing at for themselves only. Cover becomes open, superior cover becomes cover ( -1 to 0 and -2 to -1 to hit, respectively). Those aren't the proper terms, but you get what I mean.

The agility chart has some interesting stuff, but a lot of it relies on initiative checks. So while, like I said, it opens up options, they're not amazing ones for us. Not all of the skills there, anyway.

A question of my own. I recall there being a chart that you roll on where you roll 2 dice and pick your outcome from those two options. That WAS the skill chart roll, right? After you've already rolled your 2d6 for advancement and have chosen to roll for your skill? I worry that I'm mixing that up with another chart.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#51 » Apr 02 2017 02:48

Ko'Vash wrote:Clip harness allows you to clip yourself in place of you don't move. Normally if you are pinned while near a ledge, you could fall. This prevents that until you move. Good for a sniper on a vantage point.

Photo-visor allows you to drop the cover level of anyone the weirder is firing at for themselves only. Cover becomes open, superior cover becomes cover ( -1 to 0 and -2 to -1 to hit, respectively). Those aren't the proper terms, but you get what I mean.

The agility chart has some interesting stuff, but a lot of it relies on initiative checks. So while, like I said, it opens up options, they're not amazing ones for us. Not all of the skills there, anyway.

A question of my own. I recall there being a chart that you roll on where you roll 2 dice and pick your outcome from those two options. That WAS the skill chart roll, right? After you've already rolled your 2d6 for advancement and have chosen to roll for your skill? I worry that I'm mixing that up with another chart.


Oh wow the Clip-Harness sounds really amazing for us. The Photo-visor less so thanks to how easy it is to apply Markerlights in Shadow War.

The agility chart might not be something I'd put my money on then I think. Sure there is a 1/12 chance to up your Initiative by one after a battle but that still lets you with a 50% risk to fail an initiative test.

I think I'm not allowed to post the link here (got it from 4chan) so I just gonna give a quick rundown on how advancing works.
In a campaign after a mission, after you recovered from injuries and claimed the promethium but before you do the promoting or resupplying, you can pick one of your guys that's not a new recruit and wasn't taken out and advance him. That means you roll 2d6 and look up the chart what he gets.
2-3: choose +1 wound or +1 toughness
4: choose +1 strength or +1 attack
5-9: generate a skill
10: choose +1 move or +1 initiative
11-12: choose +1 WS or +1 BS

You can take every stat increase only once per guy. If you already got both options re-roll until you get something you don't already have.
No clue about how you generate a skill though. There might be another 2d6 chart to roll on but that particular image doesn't seem to have been leaked yet.

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guges
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#52 » Apr 02 2017 04:31

Look at the skill charts on the pdf. You get to pick any chart with a check next to it. You then roll 1d6 on the appropriate chart and that's the skill you get. Tau will probably benefit most from the shooting skills as you get things like rapid fire and gunslinger.

The more I read about it though, the more I think that Tau will be very hard to play well. Between the crappy weapon selection and low initiative they're really going to struggle. I 2 might as well be a wheelchair given that it means they will never get unpinned and always fall off terrain when hit.

It really seems like the Tau excel at nothing and are pretty mediocre at everything. The fact that they're useless at cc means they really shouldn't be dominated so easily in shooting. They shoot worse than almost all of the shooting arnies, though. At first glance it appears they're the worst of the shooting armies with their limited range and mediocre BS. The only thing we have is S5 shooting which won't help if we're pinned from 24" by cheaper S3 shots from the likes of Astras.

I'm hoping the drones make up the diffence as the pulse drone and the recon drone will give desperately needed firepower. The fact that the imperial factions will almost always be able to out range us will make for a lot of uphill climbs to win.

Kind of disappointed stats can only go up once and BS is one of the hardest to roll for. In Necromunda you could have pretty high stats as the limits were much higher. If you played enough games well, you could have some hero level gang members.

Ko'Vash
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#53 » Apr 02 2017 09:14

This is something I hadn't even considered when going through the rules. Makes me consider my eldar, harlies, and scouts even more strongly over my pathfinders.

Even so, I feel compelled to give them a go when I get a chance. I'll must have to hug the cover and take advantage of my markerlight access. Use a rail rifle sniper to take down key targets. So on and so forth.

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guges
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Necromunda/shadow war: tau rules

Post#54 » Apr 02 2017 09:45

I'm thinking pulse accelerators will be a necessity. Recon drones will also add some significant firepower for not so many more points than a Pathfinder with a carbine. Honestly though, needing accelerators to get to 24" feels like a massive unecessary handicap compared to lasguns. In the original Necromunda, lasguns were devastating.

Tau performance will also heavily depend on the amount of terrain used. On super dense tables they will have a severe disadvantage. On more open tables they would have a fighting chance.

Keeping the enemy at greater than 12" would probably be your top priority. Once they get that close you're going to die.

I'm a little confused that drones have no rules for flying or special movement. Hover platforms have special rules but drones don't. Makes no sense. Having 6" of movement is at least something.

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