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 Post subject: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 12:40 
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This question is (I hope) very simple and straightforward:

The description of the Blacksun Filter states that only the owner of the wargear gains the benefits. Does this include Drones that have been taken as wargear, or are those considered separate models and therefore do not inherit the owner's ability to see in the dark?

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 12:50 
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It includes the drones, because the drones are part of the unit. See page 95 of the rulebook: night fighting spotting checks are made from unit to unit, not from model to model. So yes, that means that you only need one BSF per unit to gain the benefits.


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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 01:31 
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I would have to disagree with Peregrine there. Whilst the rules for Night Fighting do specify that the test is from unit to unit, the rules for the Blacksun Filter over-ride that for the model that has the BSF. This means that the unit will take the night fighting check, and then any model with a BSF can see up to twice that distance.

So, drones never benefit from blacksun filters.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 01:34 
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So BSF's on Missilepod equipped Crisis suits, Broadsides, and SMT's are really good. Another trick is to give one to your commander and attach him to a squad for Turn one of DoW.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 01:47 
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Mal'Caor wrote:
I would have to disagree with Peregrine there. Whilst the rules for Night Fighting do specify that the test is from unit to unit, the rules for the Blacksun Filter over-ride that for the model that has the BSF. This means that the unit will take the night fighting check, and then any model with a BSF can see up to twice that distance.

So, drones never benefit from blacksun filters.




Obsolete codex wins again, I guess, as those rules seem to conflict a bit. Were the night fighting rules changed at all from 4th edition to 5th?


Of course given how useless BSFs in general, I might be a bit biased towards going with the most Tau-favorable interpretation of the rules.


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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 02:26 
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Peregrine wrote:
Were the night fighting rules changed at all from 4th edition to 5th?


Just had a quick compare of the 4th and 5th edition rulebooks, and there's no functional change to the Night Fighting rule. The fifth edition rulebook just adds a little extra text clarifying how to measure for it.

As for the rules, I guess we win some, and loose some. There's no actual conflict of rules here though (just like the rules for relentless and the restrictions on Crisis suit jetpacks don't actually conflict). Better luck next codex, perhaps?

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 09:02 
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I figured that was the case, but the fact that they're sort of a hybrid between wargear and separate models made me unsure. I could see it working both ways, arguing both that the drones were directed by the controller, and thus would fire wherever the controller could see, and that they form a unit and are thus not counted, just as with any other unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 07:37 
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I would argue that the drones can use the bsf, as the drones are brought as a part of equipment for the battlesuit and the bsf is hardware for the battlesuit so it's all being tied to the one battlesuit. So, assuming you have a done controller on your suit along with a bsf then any drones you buy for that suit can use the bsf but not independent drones/ drones in squads.


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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 22 2010 08:14 
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I'm going to sit firmly in the no BSF for drones camp.

Codex pg 26: "Only models equipped with the BSF gain any extra benefit."

The drone controller itself is only a communications hub. The drones themselves are still semi-autonomous models. If not, by the same logic a targeting array would give my Gun or Marker drones +1 BS.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 02:30 
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But by extension the drone is equipped to the battlesuit as it doesn't act on it's own.


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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 03:52 
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Shas'O T'Ar'Cha wrote:
But by extension the drone is equipped to the battlesuit as it doesn't act on it's own.


But it is still a separate model, with its own stat line, wargear, and all. The only reason it is "attached" is because it comes in a collection of the equipment model purchased it and, with the exception of when its owning model is killed, functions in the rules of the game just like any other model in that unit.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 08:54 
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But drones do gain the abilities of their owner, i.e. relentless, so why not gain the ability of the BSF?


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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 09:13 
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I think you're reading that way too far in depth.

Drones have a unit type that when they are attached via a DC is the same as their owner (Tau 31). If their unit type is standard infantry, then they're foot-slogging standard infantry. If their unit type is Jump Infantry (Jet Pack) then they gain the Relentless USR (BRB 52 & Tau 31). The reason this happens is because the rules say that they have the same Unit Type as their owner.

To bring this back to the BSF question at hand, the rule specifically says it only grants this to the specific model (Tau 26). The Gun Drone model does not have the BSF, nor - and unless someone can cite a rule specifically that says so - does simply by virtue of being in a unit with the BSF does the Gun Drone gain the BSF.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 23 2010 11:53 
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Put simply, the only thing a drone and its controller are guaranteed to share is unit type. With the notable exception of stealth fields, equipment is not conferred onto drones from its controller. The ASS is a bit iffy, in that it is not stated that drones inherit the ASS, yet the unit may take drones. Per the rules, the ASS would be useless until the drones were removed.

Back to the BSF. No where in the drones' description does it say that anything is conferred from the controller unto the drone save unit type. Stealth field generators have a clause within their own rules stating that it is conferred. This would lead one to believe that unit type alone is conferred implicitly and any other inheritances must be explicitly laid out in the an equipment's own rules. This is not the case for the BSF, so assuming the previous to be true, the BSF is not inherited and by rules of the BSF the drones cannot benefit from the additional distance in a night fighting distance roll unless the drone itself is equipped with a BSF.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 24 2010 05:49 
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Absintheminded wrote:
Put simply, the only thing a drone and its controller are guaranteed to share is unit type. With the notable exception of stealth fields, equipment is not conferred onto drones from its controller. The ASS is a bit iffy, in that it is not stated that drones inherit the ASS, yet the unit may take drones. Per the rules, the ASS would be useless until the drones were removed.


Marker drones attached to BASS do not gain the benefit of the relentless rule as they are not equipped with an ASS and therefore do not have slow and purposeful. So it is not useless but what it means is that if you choose to use the ASS then the unit will move through difficult and the broadsides will be able to fire but the drones will not. This is covered on page 2 of the Tau empire FAQ.

In terms of drones benefiting from blacksun filters, the BSF rules say that only models equipped with it gain the benefit and since the drones are models in their own right they do not gain the benefit.

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 Post subject: Re: Blacksun Filters and Drone Controllers
PostPosted: Jan 24 2010 05:56 
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This has been pretty well summed up. Thanks for the replies everyone.

Drones are models and cannot be equipped with a BSF. Only models with a BSF can use the BSF rule as per the codex entry. Case closed.

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