Although there are several (seemingly authoritative) discussions on vehicle mounted gundrones and when they are allowed to fire; I can't find one which persuades me either way.

The codex says that they are able to fire "in addition to any other weapons" and that they "fire as part of the vehicle".

The FAQ mentions that "Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.".

None of these rulings seem to clearly indicate whether the drones count as one of the vehicles weapons. Can an unaugmented devilfish (for example) move at combat speed and fire it's both it's drones and it's burst cannon?

Well, the codex is a bit vague, but the official FAQ does reinforce the key point:
Q. Can gun drones mounted on a vehicle still fire if the
vehicle is Shaken, Stunned, moved too fast, or isnʼt
allowed to fire its weapons for any other reason? (p30)
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if
the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.


so, combat speed is definitely a yes. also, you can fire them when your vehicle is fast and you move 12, e.g. piranha.

also note, even if your burst cannon was destroyed, you can still shoot them when at combat speed, because your "allowed to fire at least one weapon". you just don't have any to fire.

Gun-drones definitely do not count as weapons and they cant be destroyed by a weapon destroyed result. You can think of them as passengers if you want, but that's not clearly stated either, so just follow the FAQ's rule for firing them to the letter and ignore the debate is what I would recommend. There are blanks in the rules no doubt, but the important parts are still clear.

Er, are you sure they don't count as weapons?
They're listed as weapons systems...

In the codex it says they count as passengers if the vehicle is damaged I believe.

I recall that being overruled by a FAQ, which is why gun drones now Go Down With The Ship if still attached... I'm at work though, so I can't cite sources.

Yes but that's a different point. It also means that the drones cannot be targeted by a Weapon Destroyed result.

Okay, having posed the question here's my own answer

The FAQ text is about all we have to go on, and I'm reading "in addition" to mean that these are on top of your normally allowed weapon firing opportunities. So yes (in my opinion) a piranha moving at 12" can fire it's primary and it's drones.

However I can see how that same text could be read as justifying the opposite view. It's definitely ambiguous.

Well, your right that it can be read justifying the opposite view, in that some will say you can only fire the drones (i.e. they are the weapons themselves).


which is why its important to note that they are not really weapons at all. I've three reasons for saying so.
recall the FAQ:
A. No, Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire if
the vehicle is allowed to fire at least one weapon.

It clearly states "Gun Drones mounted on a vehicle may only fire" implying that they are separate from the vehicle. but this is not a very convincing reason. There are 2 much better ones.

Gundrones on vehicles do not share a BS with the vehicle, and do not benefit from markerlights, and can disembark, which means their closer to being sort-of like passengers.

Also note, that there are a pair of gundrones on vehicles, and hence, if you consider them to be weapons, this would mean you actually have 3 weapons to destroy.

based on all of these, I'm inclined to say that gundrones are not weapons. at least, no one has ever challenged the way i handle them. When people do ask what gundrones are, i just say their a cross between "wargear" and passengers, as its not clearly stated that they can be defined as passengers either. Generally, because they can be detached, non-tau players just accept that they aren't weapons.

Can I get a source for them not getting affected by markerlights?

Because I'm pretty sure that because they fire with the tank they're attached to, as one squad, they act the same as drones in squads do, getting the markerlight bonus...

Well, I've never seen a source that said that they cannot use markerlights specifically. I think the current ruling is that if you use markerlights to augment the Devilfish, it only applies to the Devilfish's weapons, and not the drones. Now that I think about it though, I'm not sure.

@ Crshu
Tau FAQ 1.1 states:
Q. If you have gun drones on a vehicle (i.e. not detached)
and increase the BS of the vehicle using a markerlight, is
the BS of the Gun Drones increased as well? (p30)
A. No.

@ Ell'ran, well, when gun drones are detached or in a squadron, they can use markerlights just fine. When still attached to vehicles, as seen above, they don't benefit.

Whether you can still use it for the drones themselves when their still attached... I don't know. I would think no? but in any case, i don't see myself wasting markerlights for 2 drones so i really wont worry my head on this.

That's actually what I was referring to when I made the comment, guess I wasn't specific enough. But say for instance your main weapon was destroyed and for whatever reason you still wanted to boost the drones instead of the rest of your cadre whilst they are still attached to the Fish. There isn't really a clear ruling on that matter.

I believe that the FAQ entry as written just defines that both the drones and the devilfish can't benefit from the same markerlight, therefore I don't see why the drones couldn't use a separate markerlight token to augment their BS.

Though I feel similar to Shinji, I don't think its an issue that you should need to worry about too often.

Easy: You use a markerlight to boost the firing of a squad. Drones fire with the vehicle, and cannot declare their fire independently of the vehicle. (They fire at the same target as the vehicle they are attached to.) When you declare their firing, you use the markerlight for the squad, but apparently can't use it for the drones because they are not a separate squad, and cannot use the same token the vehicle uses.

Sigh.

I want a new codex.

But the FAQ doesn't say that only the Devilfish can have it's BS increased, it just states the increasing the Devilfish's BS doesn't increase the BS of the drones. I think that you could use markerlight tokens to increase the drone's BS, but any tokens used for drones don't apply to the devilfish and vice versa.

Someone could enforce that Drones can't use markerlight tokens because they aren't a separate squad, but I would think that any reasonable opponent shouldn't have a problem with it. If you do happen do be versing that stingy player who will leap at any chance to gain an advantage by exploiting wording, then that's a bit of a shame, but as has been said numerous times before; why would you use a markerlight on a pair of gun drones? Really, if you're trying to do this, it's probably because they're the only unit that could benefit from them and it's more for the sake of using them than anything else, so I wouldn't be too worried.

Also, there are ways of getting around this even if your opponent is stingy. For instance, you can detach your gun drones.

And instead of using markerlights, do consider using your pathfinders's pulse carbines instead. Have had games where opponents forgot that pathfinders have guns too! Can come in handy sometimes.

True. The number one time I forget this is when I absolutely have to move them, and I then skip them in the shooting phase because I know that they have heavy weapons.. But other than on the move they'd have to be in a pretty bad situation to be able to do more damage on their own rather than supporting something else, but I guess we should always bear it in mind.