First off I feel I need to say two things: I looked for other threads regarding this and couldn't find any. I also think I should be posting this in the Tactica section, but I am unable to, perhaps because I'm still too new?(EDIT: Thanks for moving it!) Now, on to the topic at hand...

The main purpose of creating this thread was to spark discussion. I want to see what the collective minds of the great Tau commanders of ATT think of the new Tetra rules.

I'm just going to get right to the point: Do the new rules for the Tetra Speeders make Pathfinders Teams (generally) obsolete? In case you're not familiar with the new rules, go ahead and google "Tau update forge world" (I'm not sure if I'm allowed to directly link the PDF update page, am I?).

If you are looking for a dedicated marker light team, these seem to be a better choice. Now, I'm not very good at the number crunching, but the pros seem to outweigh the cons.

Let me first go over the highlights of a Pathfinder team:
Pros:
-Multiple wounds: If you take a killing blow on a tetra, say goodbye to 4 markerlights. If you take a hit to a Pathfinder team, you only lose 1!
-The Devilfish you (are required) to take has the added benefit of directing deep strikers. It also has scout. That's cool!
Cons:
-Required to take a Devilfish: If you're like me, being required to spend an extra 80+ points for your dedicated markerlight unit is a heavy blow. Not to mention the Drones can counts as an extra kill point. Thats 3 kill points for one squad. It's been one of my pet peeves for ages...
-BS 3- Again, if you're me, rolling 4 markerlights and only hitting 1 or 2 every time is painful, considering the markerlights are the backbone of most Tau armies...

Tetra Scout Speeder Team:
Pros:
-BS 4: I consider the Targeting Array a mandatory upgrade. Increase your BS to 4 for 5 points? Seems like a no-brainer.
-Disruption Pod Included: Not a very big Pro, considering its normally 5 points anyway...but hey, that's still cool! It also helps with the biggest con you'll see below.
-Fast Vehicle: Many people believe being mobile is one of Tau greatest strengths. Pathfinders defy this believe. Tetras however can move up to twelve inches and still fire its marklights!
-Squads of Heavy 4 Markerlights: Tetras allow you to bring so many BS 4 Markerlights that its starts to become overkill. The max squad number is 4, but I only usually bring 2 to a squad. I personally run 2 two man squads, with one Tetra in each using a Target Lock. This allows a total of 16 BS 4 markerlights hit up to 4 different units! In larger games (2000-2500) I consider bringing either a third squad, or two squads of three.
-Marker Beacon/Scout- The Tetra also comes with its own Marker Beacon and Scout, that way you don't miss the pathfinders special Devilfish.
-Relatively cheap:- if you figure out the cost-per-markerlight average across the Tau armoury.
Cons:
-Losing a Tetra: Losing a tetra is one of the most painful things I have experienced as a Tau player, and its by far a huge con of taking Tetras. Being open-topped only increases the chances of them dying. Oh, and armor 10. Yeah...squishy. Losing one Tetra is equivalent to losing four BS 4 Pathfinders; that hurts.
-Open-topped/Armor 10: See above.
-High priority targets: Because of the heavy 4 Markerlight squishyness, Tetras are the first things smart enemies shoot at.

Edit:
I would also like to point out the Forward Observer Rule. I'm willing to bet this rule will have a purpose in the 6th ed codex that's soon to come. I believe that's the reason for the whole update to begin with.



I have probably forgot some things, but that's the gist of it. What do you think? Are Tetras the new standard for delivering our Markerlights? Yes? No? Yes, but only in moderation? Are they only a supplement to Pathfinders? Discuss away!

That forgeworld update does make the Tetras attractive. One point on your devilfish cons though:



The drones only count as a killpoint if they're detached. Keep 'em attached and they're just destroyed. This is covered in the FAQ.

I think that you're forgetting the difference between Vehicle and Battlesuit Target Locks. On vehicles, the Target Locks only allow the unit to split the fire of the individual vehicle, but not between vehicles. In squads of vehicles, I'd say that the battlesuit version would be definitely more effective - but hey, the rules don't always work out the way they should.

EDIT: I just had another thought after posting that.
You could declare that the Pulse rifle of the vehicle with a TL is firing with the unit and the ML is splitting fire, but I think that you'd need to be able to shoot with the rifle to pull this off. Moving at 6" and shooting at two units is still pretty good though.

I disagree Aun Tier, there seems to be nothing in the rule book that states you cannot split fire "nothing" at your primary target. For instance if you have a Hammerhead Tank with a target lock there is nothing stopping you from targeting a marine squad and firing you weapons at 3 other targets not including the originally targeted marine squad.

"...Each Weapon on the vehicle may fire at a separate enemy unit if desired,..."

See nothing about having to actually fire something at an original target unit so Tetra A should be able to fire at Enemy A and Tetra B can still fire its markerlights at Enemy B while "targeting" enemy A along with Tetra A since they are grouped and can only "target" one unit.

Isn't the Markerlight considered a defensive weapon (having STR 4<) and follow the rule that every defensive weapon is allowed to shoot if at least one weapon is permitted to shoot?

Being fast can move 12'' and shoot its pulse rifle AND markerlight. With target locks every weapon can shoot at a different target (overcome the squadron rule) and in most shooting phases it "count as" pulse rifle having shot at the same target, while markerlight can choose a different target.

Just shooting the markerlight at different target is a shortcut, most of the time I forget that I also have the twinlinked pulse rifle

Moved to Tactica Forum.

E.

Oh, these new Tetra Scouts are awesome. However, my experience with them so far is that they are so good that after opponents watch them in action for one or two games, they have usually asked me not to play them (since it's "officially 40k" but only with opponent approval type of thing).

Yes, they are squishy and they do hurt when you lose one of them. But with careful unit composition (I like the two squadrons of 2 each in a 1850 point game), 8 markerlight hits hitting at BS4 on an armored platform that requires at least anti-tank weaponry to deal with (again, yes, they are open-topped and AV 10 all around) means you've got some reliable markerlights on a target.

And the thing is, best of all...they are mobile and can still fire their markerlights !!!

just to add to the above points.

With the tetra being capable of moving 24" in a single turn going flat out and with a maximum effective range of 36"(we can live without the pulse rifles ), It should be easy enough to keep the tetra out of range from massed infantry weapons (barring deep strike or other sneakiness). This leaves decently ranged heavy weapons as the tetras primary threat. The standard issue disruption pod should also negate half of these shots.
Tetras will inevitably start to go down against these weapons, but any turn spent firing long range heavy weapons against tetras is a turn not spent firing against broadsides or hammerheads. This can only add to priority target saturation and potentially divert important shots away from the big hitters in your list to a comparatively cheap unit.

Regarding being able to fire at multiple units; I assumed only one Tetra needed the Target Lock because it simply states "-enables the model to target a separate enemy unit to that engaged by the rest of its own unit." Simply put, the model with the target lock can fire at a different unit than the model without one. The Target Lock under the vehicle rules also apply simply because its a vehicle.The suit rules apply because it's in a squad. That's basically what my FLGS has agreed on.

EDIT:
I sent the Forgeworld team a question regarding this just a few minutes ago:

...and now we wait for an answer!

Whatever the answer is, pulse rifles of the whole Tetra squadron fire at one target, while target locks enable markerlights to shoot at different targets.

Most important is the Forward Observer rule, which should be like the Forward Scout and allows Tetras to always deploy on the table and making their scout move, even in Dawn of War games.

And another fluff thing I already said in another topic: High Intensity Marker Light. Beside being heavy 4 it's written in the fluff that it allows out-of-reach weaponary to home in. Could this be a hint in how new markerlight will work? Seen that using the token to overcome target priority is useless with 5th edition...

Hey guys I'd like to give my tuppence.

I heard of the FAQ a few months ago and like everyone else I was really excited. Went out and ordered the Tetras I've used them a couple of times now and am a massive fan. Essentially for the cost of a bare bones unit of 8 Pathfinders you can get up three (if you wish) Tetras with TA's. In terms of cost I'd say they're the most viable option for markerlights. They're mounted on a fast skimmer transport that may fire their markerlights as defensive weapons meaning you have markerlights that can move and fire over 12". Not to mention redeploy up to 24". Compared to static pathfinders or the more mobile Stealth Marker Team they win hands down in terms of manoeuvrability. Then finally there's the fact they come mounted on a vehicle chassis with all the pros and cons associated with that. They can get one-shot 'pinged' out and be shaken. However only anti-tank weaponry is likely to capable of taking them out, so I'd say they're on a par with pathfinders for survivability and perhaps behind a Stealth Marker Team in that respect.

One thing I've not seen mentioned here is the model's incredibly small profile and low height. These models are very small in comparison to even a Piranha. They're easily concealable. Can be placed behind low terrain or behind buildings and other Tau tanks. Making it much easier for canny Tau players to simply cut of LOS from the majority of counter threats. Peaking through the ground floor windows on buildings is my present favourite method of using them. Naturally ML's don't give away cover saves so firing through cover has no affect on their effectiveness. Also if placed in such a manner it's easy for your opponent to forget about them. Ideally though they neither have the opportunity to target them nor wish to. As hopefully you'll have either destroyed or seriously maimed their target and be presenting more ominous (and durable) threats such as Hammerheads/Warfish/Piranhas.

For me, personally, there's no competition they're the best choice and actually make Tau viable again. I've been using a pair in a 1500pts list. (I find I don't need more than a pair and personally think more would be overkill) Their inclusion has pushed me further down a mechanised route as taking three Hammerheads and giving no cover saves makes a mess of most infantry. It's also led me to buying and using Piranha some what four/five years(?) after the codex came out. Being fully Mech means you're presenting your opponent with a saturation of targets and you'll see the Tetras slip down their target priority list.

Oh and don't discount the value of the free disruption pod on them. Multiplied across multiple vehicles in your army the value is magnified. Effectively reducing the long range AT effectiveness of your opponent by half and if you're going fully mech. That'll only exacerbate your opponents headache. In one of my last games I enjoyed watching a unit of Chaos Obliterators spend a few turns attempting to blat two Tetras with lascannons. Even when they hit the disruption pod negated it, saving them and sparing my Hammerheads. Very satisfying to say the least.

So in summary a great unit that has a place in all Tau armies. Arguably the best way to put markerlights on the table. However IMO this unit performs best in a fully mechanised cadre.

I ran a single (with TA) at the last 750pt club tournament. It was worth every point. Move 12", fire a S5 Rapid Fire weapon at the rear armour of a tank and light it up with a Heavy 4 marker light? Made killing Lemun Russ and other heavy vehicles "dead" easy.

If it wasn't for the uncertainty regarding possible new editions/codices and that I'm not sure how the people at the club would react, I'd grab a pair in a heartbeat. They still have their drawbacks, but just the mobility alone would be amazing. The ability to hide before popping out to deliver markerlights, high resiliency vs basic infantry weapons, no morale checks, and the ability to maneuver to deny LOS to as much of their army as possible (aside from the thing you're marking) are all massive plusses over pathfinders even apart from their greater overall markerlight capacity. I just wish the vehicle squadron rules didn't present you with such a set of tradeoffs - field them together and have to buy a TL to split fire, gain 'immob = dead', fire spilling over onto a hidden vehicle if only one of them is visible, and fire spilling over in general, or field them separately and have to use up two fast slots and potentially give up twice the kill points. I think I'd personally go with the second since I have the fast slots to use (the local meta isn't competitive enough to make piranha completely mandatory, and I dislike them on fluff and model grounds), but giving up two KP is still annoying.

A possible use I'm considering trying out sometime soon is to field a pair of Tetras and two pairs of Piranhas as Fast Attack choices. The Tetras will both have Target Locks. Now this may seem a little odd but I've taken a TL on both Tetras because I would prefer to declare a fairly innocuous target for the squadron as my primary target and then be able to target the more juicy units with the MLs, thus shooting at three separate enemy units. This will allow one Tetra to light up a target for one Piranha pair, boosting the BS of the Piranhas and reducing the cover saves of those enemy vehicles.

As I said though: this is in the "thought process only" stage, but since I have 4 Tetras it would be churlish not to make use of at least a couple of them and their sudden boost in efficacy.

E.

So I played a game with only two (I only have two Piranhas, used them as Tetras), in two separate units.

They rocked face. I killed an entire squad of killa-cans in cover from a custom force field. With the two of them, I got 7 markerlight hits on the squad. Got rid of his cover save entirely (which made him sweat. That makes his expensive force field model useless...), and increased my Broadsides BS to 5, with one marker remaining.

Oh, and did I mention that was first turn?

Lets just say, he focused his entire army on my Tetras. He didn't care if there were other high value targets to shoot at, my denying him covers saves was going to kill his army and he saw that instantly. My Tetras lasted two turns and there was absolutely nothing I could do about it.

Granted, in those two turns, they were responsible for the death of two entire killacan squads, and one Deff Dread...so I was OK with the fact that he mobilized his entire army to kill them.

Needless to say, I feel I won because of the Tetras. Also, I was right about them being the #1 target for any smart player. Luckily, I still had a squad of 7 pathfinders he completely ignored (they were all twinlinked too, from the new Sensor Tower). =D

I've just realized that I will be running Tetras if I can. I'll have to consult with play group/rulebooks to see if they'll be ok to use. (By the way, are they Plastic or Resin?) Resin. ~ E.

The reason is that I find Pathfinders to be much too fragile, static, and requiring an add-on that reduces my firepower across the board. So instead, I use the Sky Ray (Ha, just kidding. No one uses the Sky Ray.) I use a Stealth marker team instead, to have mobile, relatively hard to kill marker sources, that can also put out a decent amount of anti-infantry hurt in a pinch. (They have to go chase my stealths, which are usually FAR AWAY from my main army.) The issue is two-fold then, 1) they're expensive and 2) they eat an Elite slot that I could be using to field more dakka-wielding suits.

Hey look, Tetras solve both those problems, without any downsides that I can see, and as a super-special awesome bonus, THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS. Captain Picard would approve.

They are a LITTLE easier to kill, I suppose, as one good shot will ruin their day, and harder to hide than a stealth squad. A 48" threat range is pretty nifty though.

I'd like to add something obvious, but not to be forgotten. It is true that a Tetra squadron has pros and con, but a single Tetra uses the normal vehicle damage table, which means immobilized =/= destroyed.

In lower point battles it may be more useful to have two single Tetras than a unit of two, sparing the cost and headache of using target locks.

Yup. Even then they're still mission killed on 2/3rds of the damage chart, but that's better than being mission killed on 5/6ths of it. You can also split them up to cover different areas of the table, or take advantage of terrain that isn't big enough to hide more than one at a time. If you've got the fast slots, it does seem the best way to field them, although that's a big assumption if you're playing a larger or more heavily competitive game where you'll need piranhas.

I must say, I've always discredited the Tetra on account of them being too fragile for me compared to what role they tried to fill.
But this new development certainly has me rethinking their use. As far as I see it, the cons we associate with the Tetras aren't a new headache for us since we are already dealing with them on such a big deal of our force anyway. I favor a mech heavy army for my style of play and truth be told, I have more Hammerheads than I have Crisis suits. (Sue me!)
The Tetras play nicely into my markerlight need since I hate having static units and SMTs have rarely worked for me. (Probably doing something horribly wrong)
My only concern is the fact they are a FW unit. I have no FW units and I'm not sure everyone in my play group would accept them in our tournaments. (They tend to make heavily house ruled tournaments). And I'm not overly fond of the idea of working with resin.
Here's to hoping they'll be added in the upcoming codex and getting a plastic kit. (I can hope!)

Anywho, they certainly seem awesome and I've got to try some field tests with piranha stand ins.

I Play in a very Necron-Heavy meta. Heavy enough that I can expect Solar Pulses and Storm Lords to inflict Night Fighting in multiple turns upon me more than a full 1/3rd of my games.

High Intensity Markerlights on a platform that also can take Black Sun Filters? Uhm, yes please!!!

I've already done some experiments where my Pathfinder Shas'ui has a HWBSF so that I have good odds on one markerlight hit. That being able to negate Night Fighting on that one priority target has been the literal difference between victory and defeat a couple of times already.

I was thinking of swapping a Hammerhead out for a Skyray with Black Sun to increase my Nightfighting capabilities, but truthfully it seems apparent to me that I should ditch my Pathfinders and replace them with Tetras set up for Nightfighting. Either in separate units or as a squadron with Target Locks. This way I can pierce the darkness around my opposition and still gain the other benefits of my Markerlights.

As an aside, those of you that find yourself dealing with the darkside frequently, the Tau can and will do well, but you have to equip properly, which reduces your points efficiency in better visibility. Throw HWBSFs on your Railgun and Missile Pod equipped suit team leaders so at least one of them will always be able to shoot (Plasma Rifles, Burst Cannons and Fusion Blasters are short enough range that the Accute Senses should garuntee being able to fire). BSFs on your tanks and your marker units. SMS are a must on everything that will carry them.