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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Nov 26 2012 06:36 
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im2randomghgh wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
Using the Sniper Drone spotter to fire the Quad-gun seems like an idea with definite potential, but you have to ask yourself whether sacrificing a railgun slot in favor of Sniper Drones is a worthy option.


I wouldn't recommend spending the points for fortifications at anything below 2000, where the double FOC makes taking all the HS goodness you want fairly easy.

Another option for it, in case you really want 3x6 broadsides, is to take a monat deathrain+ Team Leader with a HWMT to fire 6 TL BS4 S7 shots a turn.


How would one crisis suit get 6 shots with a misslepod?


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Nov 26 2012 06:47 
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shasolozo wrote:
im2randomghgh wrote:
Fetterkey wrote:
Using the Sniper Drone spotter to fire the Quad-gun seems like an idea with definite potential, but you have to ask yourself whether sacrificing a railgun slot in favor of Sniper Drones is a worthy option.


I wouldn't recommend spending the points for fortifications at anything below 2000, where the double FOC makes taking all the HS goodness you want fairly easy.

Another option for it, in case you really want 3x6 broadsides, is to take a monat deathrain+ Team Leader with a HWMT to fire 6 TL BS4 S7 shots a turn.


How would one crisis suit get 6 shots with a misslepod?


I believe what was meant were 2 shots with missile pod and 4 shots with Crisis operated quadgun.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 03 2012 08:34 
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I've used the bastion and I like it. Not only is it good for the Quad Gun and for sheltering a unit, it also is good to deny LOS completely for a unit of XV8. I prefer to use a unit of Broadsides inside. I use a target lock on the Team leader in case there's a target on a different side of the Bastion. I did try using my Dark Reapers inside, but they didn't have the same range to reach the entire board.
I had a disagreement with an opponent about Skyfire with my Commander using the JSJ tactic to man the quad gun. He said that only the shots fired from the quad gun have the Skyfire rule. For the sake of time, I let it go since it was getting late. But The Rule says
Quote:
p. 42 BRB
Skyfire
A model with this special rule, or that is firing a weapon with this speacial rule fires using its normal ballistic skill whhen shooting at Flyers...

It seems that even the missile pods could be fired at normal BS. Mainly this would be useful just to speed things up since I could all the dice at once, but it could be helpful against the heavier armored flyers as well.
Anybody know about a clarification on this?

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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 12:08 
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When shooting at flyers the quad gun fires at normal BS, ( the quad gun has skyfire, not the suit )
and any other weapon will be snap shots assuming the suit also has a multi-tracker that will allow
another weapon to be fired.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 08:56 
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Shas'o Rama wrote:
When shooting at flyers the quad gun fires at normal BS, ( the quad gun has skyfire, not the suit )
and any other weapon will be snap shots assuming the suit also has a multi-tracker that will allow
another weapon to be fired.


There is no premise in the rules for this. The rules for skyfire state that a model firing a weapon uses it's normal ballistic skill. All shots are fired simultaneously using the same ballistic skill (there is nothing in the rules that indicate that ballistic skill is determined on a "per-bullet" basis instead of a "per-model" one).

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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 09:40 
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While I can see where you're coming from, the notion of my pistol inheriting the tracking capability of the Stinger missile I'm holding is ludicrous, even if I am somehow firing both at the same target. Our weapons are, of course, more advanced, but the point remains. I find it more sensible to roll separately than to try and walk my opponent through the logic presented here.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 10:15 
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I thought you could choose to fire either your own weapon or manually fire an emplaced weapon like the quad gun, but not both? Therefore if you choose to fire your missile pod you cannot also fire the quad gun which means you're not firing a weapon with Skyfire and have not gained the rule for your suits weapon.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 10:29 
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Blusox69 wrote:
I thought you could choose to fire either your own weapon or manually fire an emplaced weapon like the quad gun, but not both? Therefore if you choose to fire your missile pod you cannot also fire the quad gun which means you're not firing a weapon with Skyfire and have not gained the rule for your suits weapon.

Normally, this is true. We're assuming you have a multi-tracker, which would allow you to fire 2 weapons. (There's also no reason you would choose a Missile Pod over a Quad Gun, if the option is presented.)


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 11:17 
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But the rule book states a multitracker allows the model to fire two battlesuit weapon systems at the same time, not a battlesuit weapon and an emplaced weapon. If I have missed an FAQ then I apologise as I don't have them to hand at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 04 2012 11:47 
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Blusox69 wrote:
But the rule book states a multitracker allows the model to fire two battlesuit weapon systems at the same time, not a battlesuit weapon and an emplaced weapon. If I have missed an FAQ then I apologise as I don't have them to hand at the moment.


Very first item of the Tau FAQ, available on the GW website. EDIT: Also referenced in the third post of this thread.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 05 2012 09:43 
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STS17 wrote:

There is no premise in the rules for this. The rules for skyfire state that a model firing a weapon uses it's normal ballistic skill. All shots are fired simultaneously using the same ballistic skill (there is nothing in the rules that indicate that ballistic skill is determined on a "per-bullet" basis instead of a "per-model" one).


I can see a couple precedents for firing at a different BS for a model. This is due to thinking about how other armies deal with skyfire.

1. Flyers themselves - They can choose to use the Skyfire USR, but shots at all other targets are snap shots. Granted this is only really relevant if the flyer is a Super Heavy, but it gives a situation where a single model is firing at separate Ballistic Skills.

2. Vehicles firing after moving - This one is far more common. If a vehicle moves it can only fire a certain amount of weapons at full BS. The others are fired as Snap Fires. This happens to me rarely if I were to take a Target Lock on my Hammerhead. If I move 12" and bought a Multi-Tracker, I can fire the Railgun and one Burst Cannon. The final weapon is a snap shot.
This also applies when firing an Ordnance weapon from a vehicle. All shots besides the big gun are snap shots.

3. Hydra Flak Tank FAQ - This is the big one. When I was thinking about vehicles and their separate BS, I decided to check out the wording in the FAQ about the one tank that has Skyfire.
Here is what I found.
Quote:
Page 51 – Hydra Flak Tank, Hydra Autocannon.
Add the Skyfire special rule to the Hydra Autocannon’s type.

This is probably the thing that clarifies the rule for me about using another model to fire a Skyfire emplaced weapon. The Hydra doesn't have the skyfire rule, it's weapon does. It can fire it's heavy bolter at the flyer as well, but it will be a snap shot.

Conclusion:

I'd say that even if a crisis suit could fire two weapons. (the Quad gun and Twin-linked Missile pod) Only the Quad gun would fire at normal BS if shooting at a flyer.

Of course, I'm still willing to take a cheap upgrade on my Shas'el that would let me fire 6 Twin Linked S7 shots at a rhino.

If I were in a tournament, I would bring this to the judge and ask. Of course someone could also make the argument (weak as it would be) that a Hydra could fire its Heavy bolter at full BS to take down a flyer, but since I don't have any flyers, it doesn't hurt me much.

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Tau 6th edition Codex record
6- 1- 1
W-L- D


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 01:29 
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RAW, you can fire any other weapon as Skyfire when firing a Skyfire weapon; RAI is much more hazy. It's the type of trick that I personally like to avoid pulling-- I prefer to use the interpretation that is less favorable for my army as a matter of good sportsmanship.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 03:16 
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No RAW you cannot fire another weapon as skyfire this has already been discussed to exhaustion here

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewt ... a&start=20

To summarize "when firing" is talking explicitly when that weapon is rolling not the phase in general.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 03:19 
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Urza5589 wrote:
No RAW you cannot fire another weapon as skyfire this has already been discussed to exhaustion here

http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewt ... a&start=20

To summarize "when firing" is talking explicitly when that weapon is rolling not the phase in general.


I don't agree with you, but I consider the point uninteresting in any case; regardless of RAW I would not attempt to do this unless it were explicitly FAQed to allow the second weapon firing at full BS.


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 03:55 
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If you don't agree with me then do you roll gets hot for any weapon that shoots at the same time as a plasama weapon? Because the wording is the same and as such they have to follow the same rules... as said in the previous thread... Not to mention you cant shoot blast and non blast weapons in the same phase then?


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 03:59 
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Urza5589 wrote:
If you don't agree with me then do you roll gets hot for any weapon that shoots at the same time as a plasama weapon? Because the wording is the same and as such they have to follow the same rules... as said in the previous thread... Not to mention you cant shoot blast and non blast weapons in the same phase then?


As I said, I consider the point uninteresting. Can we get this discussion back to the original topic?


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 04:07 
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If you find it interesting why do you devote another entire post to it...? Personally I think the bastion is a fantastic tool but not one that will involve much innovative use besides LOS blocking and JSJ. I find broadsides to be without a doubt the best option for filling it, the only question i am still up in the air on is if they need shield drones or if gun drones can now suffice?


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 Post subject: Re: 6th edition Tau Tactics: the "Tau Bastion"
PostPosted: Dec 07 2012 04:09 
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Urza5589 wrote:
I find broadsides to be without a doubt the best option for filling it, the only question i am still up in the air on is if they need shield drones or if gun drones can now suffice?


I don't give my Bastion Broadsides drones at all-- in most games the Bastion is never damaged, and damage to the occupants can largely be mitigated by 2+ saves.


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